08: You Know?

Wow, what was that? That's my wife. She's grabbing something and getting out of here. I'm what I really are interested in. Did you give the fuck out of her recording right now? Maybe she wants to be on the podcast. I mean, why not? Nope. Nope. See, yes. Hey, everyone. What do you know about CES? Yes. Do you know anything interesting about CES? This is your chance. I'm going through it next to you. That's not our listeners don't give a shit about that. Can I be a special guest after I go? If you have anything interesting to talk about, tech related. Well, you should tell me within agenda with theiness climate. Yeah, we can do that. You don't have to go look for the XPS 13 anymore because that already came out and I bought one today. Bye. Man, I need a bigger lock on this store. [Music] Yeah, I'll really all I've adjusted on this thing is probably game and positioning. I know how to position it Right, it's very basic. I'm not doing anything any fancy special effects. It's just my voice. What can I say? I have a voice for the microphone. You got good pipes. I've got well. Hey, thanks Even got even got some pudos for that on the on the Facebook. Yeah, today was really cool actually I I nerded out a lot today just because You know putting out that so I put that video out and it was me in my t-shirt and a hat And it was on the phone and it was very quick Hey, how you doing? copycode cast Da da da da check us out and Fuckin' hey, there was a lot of Engagement on that one little post dude. I was I was amped up like all day you like you're a little Marketing effort there like clearly the the Gary Vander Chuck marketing help is pushing us forward because yeah yeah I mean there's a lot of good response on that you got a ton of impressions views whatever the hell you want to call them yeah yeah yeah people reached out it's it's cool I'm very inspired right now by Gary's been working his magic with me I'm feeling the Gary vibes flowing through it's good this is number seven and remember we had such high ambition and goals at the outset of this thing right I think I think I think our goal was to just say something for 30 minutes and post it online and let's not give too many fucks about who listens or if anybody listens. So it's been really cool to start to engage and we're getting better each time learning new tricks and tips along the way. Hopefully bringing some value to the people that are listening. I think it's entertainment value on some level, but hopefully it's informational too. I think it is. Yeah, a number of people have told me they appreciate our large amount of bullshit. Yeah, our little conversational bullshit back and forth, the banter, if you will. I think it's fun. It's to do something a little different. It doesn't have to be one dimensional, "Hey, we're just here to bring you the news. You can already get the news on the phone." We're not talking about groundbreaking things on the show here. All this stuff is already out there. We're not really creating new content. We're just regurgitating it, but I think the way we do it is entertaining, and I enjoy it. And the other part of it too is that we're curating things that are out there. We're finding kind of different pieces to bring together that you're not, you know, it's a more just, something that's more distilled. You're not just getting a list of headlines from the news, we're trying to bring in a few different topics to talk about as well. And maybe, maybe we portray it in a way that's clear or easier to understand for, for some folks, I don't know. Let me wrap up what we're saying though with just a little bit here. So it was very exciting today. We've tried some new things with social media. It's really brand new for us. We don't know what the hell we're doing, right? We decided to start a podcast because we wanted to get more comfortable stretching ourselves a little bit. We wanted to do it for a long time. Talked about it for a while, just never really. I wanted to do it. That was something I talked about in my, I have a video for the other project that I'm gonna release shortly, but But that was one of the things I mentioned in there is that probably for at least five years Kyle I wanted to do that do this thing. I didn't know it would be this but I wanted to do something and give back because you know I'm on stack overflow for ten years steel in other people's. I thought alright learning finding my way through the community that it supported me in a big way and I always wanted to give back. But I was held back just by fear. I'm really afraid to do it and It's been a joy working on this thing with you so far who knows what'll happen with it But even if we have did more days like today where we get to hear from other people and reconnect with old co-workers and Just the connection of it. I think that's exciting by itself. Just the connection who we can meet and Talk to and that sort of thing That's what gets me excited for sure is just hearing people respond to what we said or what we're doing Come back with with feedback of any kind. I don't care if it's negative and they say hey, you need to change this or that Or if it's good, you know, I think just hearing people's response to stuff that we're saying and doing I think that's that makes it worth Makes it even more worthwhile because it's already worth it for me just from the standpoint of Trying to learn to speak a little better. You know, we were just talking earlier today We were just kind of like critiquing ourselves and being like god damn it. We suck. I say you know 15 times like in 20 minutes It's ridiculous 15 times in one minute Kyle. I wrote it down. Mother fuck Yeah, it's pretty bad, but I mean that's why we did this so that was the point I wrote it down on my pad right now So if you're paying attention. I shouldn't have been saying it all tonight. I don't think I have yet I I hope. I think one other item that I want to mention that I think is exciting and Maybe I'll have to cut this out. I don't know exactly how this is gonna come to fruition But we might have Another person joining us on the show at least for a show I wanted to talk about that too because you were just mentioning how you like the feedback and you like hearing from other people And that was a cool thing that happened this afternoon with one of our co-workers one of our colleagues steamed colleagues who will remain nameless until he decides to come on and name himself. I'm fine with that. If he doesn't want to come on it, it doesn't have to. I think he will. He's just a little bit. Yeah, I don't want to put the pressure on him. He's, yeah, exactly. He's the same as we were when we started. He's very nervous about the way he's going to sound and the way he's going to come off. And he's very worried about making mistakes and people calling him out on it, which is fair. We have the same problem. But to your point, last episode, you know, he just - Oh, there it is, fuck, you know. - So I was doing some research, we'll come back to this piece in just a second. I was doing some research earlier today. I thought, "How can I prevent myself from saying these things because they're so habitual? I'm not paying attention." I was in a zone the other day. - Slow down, right? - Well, maybe slow down. I was looking for more like shock treatment. I was looking for bracelets or wristbands. (laughing) They have those things for habit building. There's, I don't remember the name of the product, but you can get that thing. And if you're in bed, it's an alarm clock, right? You put it on your wrist and it'll go off. It'll give you a vibration. And you have, I don't know, 10 seconds, 30 seconds a minute, maybe it's configurable, but if you don't get the fuck up, (laughing) so I thought, wouldn't it be cool? This could be a kickstarter. This could really get us off the ground here running, but we could adapt that product or maybe we could tap into their API if they have an API and build it so that you put certain words and phrases in and build a microphone into the thing. If you say it, be saying you that shit. Or maybe it's just a software on your computer. The software will send a shock notification to the API of the wristband and then give you a little blast if you say any of those restricted words. There might be some privacy concerns with that. I'm not sure because you might be sending like everything the person says to a translation service. I just don't think that's gonna go well. I don't know. Alexa's already doing it anyway. I mean, it'll come out in a couple of years. So who knows? I would use it just for myself, even if we didn't sell one of them. I would use it for myself and check it out. I don't think it's a hard, I don't know. Is it like a shock collar on a dog? I'm not really sure how much it is. I never really tried those because it makes me nervous to like I think it's gonna be this huge thing. - Yeah, you'd say you know and it just drops you to your knees. (blows raspberry) - Yeah, it sounds like a shotgun. 1.21 jiggle watts of battery juice. So anyway, getting back to what we were saying earlier though, we had a good conversation and we had good feedback. He gave us some good feedback, I thought. - I agree. I think he's done a lot of research into that subject. So I think he'd be a very good person to bring on the show to talk about it. And I'm excited for him to do it. I think he'd be a very good contributor, even if he only wants to do it one episode. I honestly, in my heart of hearts, I kind of hope that he would just join us and do it on the regular because I think, as I mentioned to you earlier, I think three people works really, really well because if you have one person that isn't totally interested in that conversation, the other two can bullshit for a while or you can kind of round robin it and get a number of opinions and differing opinions, which is going to make the show even better. Well, I'm all for it. This thing's evolutionary. We're going to make changes. We already have made some. We're going to do some other things differently. We know we're gonna bring on some guest speakers for one thing because we don't want to just some of these topics that go more in depth. I want to bring somebody else in who has a different perspective for sure. So yeah, we'll see where it goes with him. But we're, you know, it was the topic of net neutrality. Damn it, I just did it. I said it. I would have gotten shocked if I caught myself. What did you say? I missed it. I slid a you know in there, motherfucker. Damn it. Well, maybe what we should do instead is we could get like a remote shock bracelet. So if you're listening to me and I say it, you can shock me remotely. Oh, fun. Yeah, that'd be good. Yeah, that'd be good. That wouldn't be right with abuse at all. Can we establish some healthy boundaries around it? You can't just fucking hit the button. Just to be a funny guy. I'll have my nuke button on the desk here. It's bigger than yours. This is, well. We don't have that much time to talk tonight. I'm sorry. I don't have to be reserved for another episode. (laughing) Anyway, it was a great opportunity. We did the net neutrality piece and we were trying to put it together with what we had, but you know, he understood, I did it again. See, I fucking did it again. (laughing) Shit. (laughing) We did the piece, he listened to it and he had some constructive feedback and pointed out that we missed a few points, had a few things that he would add, send us over some articles. This is the type of thing that we encourage. This is what we wanna have happen. So I said to him, look, you understand some of these things better than we do. Why don't you come on and talk to us about it. - Right, and he's listened to a handful of podcasts that are deep dives on the subject. So he's got a pretty good breadth of knowledge on it. So I definitely would encourage bringing him on. I hope he does it. And he brings the youthful voice to the show because we're old dudes at this point. - He does bring some youth to the program if he comes on. And I'll say this, and this is true whether he decides to come on or not, but I love working with him because I tell you the guy is very thorough in his evaluation. He's not, some guys just wanna get out there and just get the job done. How quickly can I get from A to B? Yeah, maybe it's a little rough around the edges, maybe it's not fully tested. He's not one of these guys also who's gonna test the shit out of it and make it perfect. But I think what his strength is is that he's trying to be pragmatic about it. Here's the task, here's what I need to accomplish, here's the deadline. But am I doing it in a way that is gonna be helpful for the next guy? Am I doing it a good enough way? I did it again. Motherfucker. You're gonna catch you're gonna catch it here because now you're really pissing yourself off of it So at least I'm hearing it this time. I didn't hear it once last time live and then listening to it drove me yeah easy. Yeah That's what I want to say about him that's that's what I think about him. He's he's got this little Piece of I don't know how you want to describe it, but there's this analytical side that's always questioning is this really the right way to go about it There's a better way, there's a, you know, yet very practical and pragmatic about getting things done. I really, well, I don't, you know, I, damn it, I did it too. I don't know if we want to continue to feed his ego. Yeah, you have to work with him every day. I don't, I don't really interact with him that often. So I could be all that shit. He might not really like that in the day to day. No, he's great. I definitely appreciate having him around and I, I think he's a very, very solid asset for the company and he was a great hire and I appreciate everything that he provides. So let's move on. Let's move on to some follow up and show news. It looks like you are full of it here. Well, I had some things in here, but I have a few things I want to talk about. First part, oh, yeah, the domain is up. We figured that out through a little trial and error today. www.copycodecast.com is live. Go to the Libsyn website now. It resolves also to the non-dub, dub, dub. So domain's up. That's good. We had some DNS propagation issues earlier. They're resolved now as far as we know. So you should go there to that site and listen to this wonderful episode. Number eight, along with all the others in the lineup. Number two is the most heavily downloaded episode, by the way, 130 times downloaded. So far. - The parental advisory is, is everybody likes it? - Yeah, it was the introduction to the F bomb that we'd be, you know, we're gonna be cussing a little fox, little shits and motherfucker occasionally. - Maybe, maybe in the podcast world, swearing cells, kind of like sex cells, you know? - Yeah, I think you know, you know, you know, you know? - No, you're doing it. - At least I've got to use it onto you. (laughing) I'm feeling good now, this is getting out of my system. - This is getting out of control. getting out of hand here. Woo! The domain's up. The second piece of show news and follow up. This was exciting. So last night I was up late, working on some shit. I was working on a project and I went to bed around 12.30. And I was checking my phone and somebody had posted that the Dell XPS 13 was released and I thought this can't be really happening because CES isn't until the 9th. This is way too premature and it a little investigating and found out that they released the new model at midnight. They had a big press release and it wasn't available for sale last night. I would have ordered it. I couldn't find it anywhere. I spent 45 minutes looking at Dell's website trying to figure out if they had updated the machines yet. I didn't see the update. Anyway, new XPS 13 is out. I ordered it. It's gonna be here Jan 18, two weeks. I'm very excited to get this in. They made some nice enhancements. We did get a sneak peek of the XPS last October. They gave some people a sneak peek in October and their pricing wasn't announced. It did go up a little bit, a couple hundred dollars, the baseline on the current XPS or the old XPS was $7.99. The new one is $9.99. Impressive specs though, 4K monitor or 1080p. Before it was QHD. So it went from QHD to 4K, thinner, smaller bezel, lighter weight. Few people aren't too happy. The camera has always been on the bottom and the camera's still down in the bottom. It's in the center instead of the left corner. So they moved it over a little bit. - That was a weird design decision. I get what they did. They have a very slim screen bezel on that device. So there's no room for it on the top, right? - That's right. - But having it down in the corner on the left, it's like right in the corner left, right by the hinge, kind of on the right near the keyboard, pretty much. It's a little bit bizarre. - Not the ideal place to put it, it's like up the nose shot or so on the shoulder. (laughing) - It's a sleek look and laptop. It's the world's smallest 13 inch laptop and most powerful, that's the claim. - I'm excited, I didn't realize When you sent me the link this afternoon, I had kind of assumed that maybe you just got itchy trigger finger and bought the old one. I didn't realize that this is already the new model that you were sending me and pulling the trigger on. That's pretty awesome. I'm excited. I'm very stoked about this thing. I can't wait to get my hands on it. I've wanted to get rid of the door stopper, the 2.440 for a long time. What did I get in there? I said I wasn't going to do this and I did it anyway. Like I said, I would, 512 solid state, okay, 4K. I went with the 4K resolution. I wasn't sure if I was gonna need that or not. I'm gonna lose some battery on that, but it sounded really nice and I thought, why not? - It's awfully minimal though, right? Wasn't the, what's the difference between the 4K and the 1080 in terms of battery life? Like how much are you losing? - Well, the 1080 says 19 1/2 hours, which is crazy. I don't know how you'll ever get that out of it, but that's the claim. They improved the battery life on it. I think the 4K people said, I don't think anybody got close to 19 in the tests. It probably got closer to 12, maybe 14. - That's on the 1080. - Yeah, and I think you lose a couple hours on the 4K. - Yeah, so, I mean, yeah, you're getting nine to 10 hours of life out of a laptop. That's pretty fucking solid, really. - I'm not gonna bitch about that. I've not gotten nine hours out of my phone barely. So well the Pixel 2 is pixel 2 is good, but other things I've had have never come close to that before so it'll be a big improvement Cool. I'm excited to hear more about this in two weeks one Hopefully that'll coincide with a return trip to Seattle so you can bring it with you. Well that is Close right well. Let me look. I'll be out there 10th and next one is gonna be let me look at the door I have a big one of those out of glance, you know like a three foot by two. I did it again. I I fucking did it. This is gonna be a bitch to edit the show, you know that? You're got a lot of editing to do. Maybe I just leave it all in there and people can laugh at us being fucking idiots. Well, that's your call. You're the editor. I'm not gonna tell you how to do your job. Just make sure it's ready to go live on Tuesday. Oh, deadlines, deadlines, deadlines. I have a leather portfolio thing that I ordered in this coming in February and that'll go nice and there the laptop is gonna fit into that thing. So portfolio, I guess leave what are you talking about? - Yeah, it's, you know, the old school portfolios before laptops and shit was just a leather-bound notebook kind of that had room for a calculator inside and - Oh sure, I know what you're talking about. - Add pens and pencils. Well, this one is more geared towards tech so it's gonna be a little larger than that. And it's just really a slim briefcase, really. It's a little larger than a portfolio. It has a zipper all the way around it on three sides, and then it folds open. And there's room for laptop, room for Kindle, room for phone, earphones, backup battery, pen pencil, all the stuff. For me, it's all the stuff that I bring on the airplane. And right now I just have to pull it out my bag and carry it onto the plane. It's a big fucking mess in the throat on my seat and then get my bag up there and did it. This is, I have it all in one thing. I just keep it that way. I go through security with it. Well, let's link that up to people might be interested in in that and maybe they want one for themselves. So it's a beautiful product. It was a Kickstarter. I find a lot of these things on Kickstarter and this one is Satchel and Page. Oh, we're on the top of it. Come, let me just pull it up. It's called Satchel and Page. It's the port series. I'll give you a link to that. I got the port 13 inch. They make them, they make them in different sizes. They haven't released them yet. They're coming out soon. Real cool looking room for all your stuff. You can put credit cards, passport, keys, charges up to two of your devices on the go. Anyway, it was a kickstarter. It was huge, hugely successful. They raised $320,000 to build this thing. And they have other stats that I don't really understand or appreciate about the leather and the build quality and its Italian Veg leather, vegetable, vegetarian. What is it? Where's this thing at? (laughs) Some kind of tan. I don't know. Consort him. Tuscan vegetable tanneries. If you like vegetable tanneries. - It's not like you're just saying shit. - I'm just, it's a random word generator. I threw a few things in there and this is what's taught me. (laughs) - Yeah, so it looks kind of like, gosh, what would I describe that as? Yeah, back in the day, I guess, just like you described a, it's a portfolio or like a, a briefcase almost that people would carry around, but it's soft, right? It's soft. It's not as large as a briefcase at all. It really is a larger version of the notepad. And they used to call that the portfolio, right? It is a portfolio notepad, a couple of other things in there. It's just a little larger. I think this one is a couple inches, two or three inches thick. If it's fully expanded in there, if you have it full of electronics. Real nice piece. I'm excited to get it. It ships in February. So soon, not soon enough. I have all these things. I buy them and then I have to wait forever. I'm still waiting for my spin coffee maker. It's bad boy. It doesn't look like it's cheap piece of equipment. No, it's not. I don't know that it will appeal to the masses. I would say if you are interested in it now is the time because it's only going to go up. Yeah, That one was set me back a few hundred and it's gonna go up another few one soon probably. Yeah, it looks like most of them are in the three hundred to almost five hundred dollar range. So they're pricey. They're pricey and I'll say this. Okay, try to save myself here a little bit. I don't I live in a small place. I don't own a vehicle. I was living in a 400 square foot studio. So I just don't I don't have a lot of possessions. I'm at a point now where when I buy something I spend up I trade up I spend more money on the longer lasting higher quality. The Dell XPS 13 wasn't a cheap laptop. I've been through so many cheap laptops and they're disposable pieces of shit after 18 months. I said you know what I'm just gonna save up. I even bought a laptop in three or four years because work has one I just used the work one. I said fuck it I want to have my own laptop and I want have something nice for the projects I'm working on and not always be using the work machine. Plus, it's I'm pissed because I've been making an appeal to IT for years to get a new one. I'm losing that battle. Take matters into my own hands. But I do trade up on some of these things. It's not a cheap piece of equipment, but it is a good build quality. I expected the last a long time. It does come with a lifetime warranty. It does come with the Japanese YKK zippers. Those are the best zippers you can get. Best zippers money can buy. I was not going to buy it until you told me that and now I'm so yeah, you know, I'm talking about it She has that engraved on the zipper to tell you know that it's like through the best I feel like I'm taking up way too much time on this topic here Yeah, or this kind of bullshit in here, but we can move on to today's topic We'll see how this goes Again, I didn't do a lot of research on this this could be a kind of a cleanup episode It doesn't have to be as official maybe as some the other the last one was I've been doing some research Poking around looking for different tools. It's been a while since I've done any kind of front-end development My role and the project that I'm working on have been working on at the company for a while now a little over a year Not a long time is Primarily middle-tier API development. So I'm not doing anything on the front-end Doing some database work But I haven't touched JavaScript other than a few edits here there bug fixes little changes nothing significant a project in view for example or any kind of MVVM pattern on the front end. I'm not doing that right now. I don't have anything at work that that requires that skill set So I've been interested in creating my own project just to keep the skill set sharpened Keep sharpening the saw right. I don't want to lose that skill. See us. This is another thing that I've lost that skill It well. I don't want to say I've lost it but I haven't been an active practitioner of it for a long time. And so I get worried that man, there's been a lot of changes since last time I was doing some CSS. What am I missing out on now? Yeah, I don't, I'm in the same boat with you. As we work at the company that we're at currently, the CSS is generally pretty hands off. It's kind of given to the design team. And they kind of take care of most of that. So I'm in the same boat with you. I'm pretty much stuck in the same, I don't know, era as I guess that I came in, which would be kind of the big deals were, you know, SaaS and LUS and you would use those through a grunt or a gulp type build. - Right. - What do they call those? - Task runners. - There you go. - Yeah. That's exactly right. And really to date ourselves, going back old school, the way we used to operate. I don't know how many people do this. Still it'd be an interesting question to ask and get feedback on this too, but how many places today still operate with the PSD handoff? That was how we did a lot of websites back in the day, was design put together the PSD and layered it and did everything that way and handed it off to the tech team and said, "Make it look like this." Well, the front end team, right? They handed it off to the front end guys and said, "Make this look identical." Pixel, Pixel. this PSD and yeah exactly, yep, pixel precise, create the CSS and HTML document to make this look exactly like the PSD. Yeah, that was, there was even services that sprung up around that, so you could send a PSD to the service online and they would give you back HTML and CSS rendered out. Right, exactly. That was the way that we operated for a long time, built a lot of websites that way. And actually, good segue into the first item I want to talk about. So the topic really that I I came up with, because I didn't have any better to talk about today was, I had this idea of a developer toolbox roundup, part one, because I wanna keep it going. I think this is just a start, but I was looking online recently for different tools. I wanted to see maybe what's evolved on the front end since the last time I did a big project. See what things are coming up and new, what are really innovative. Found something cool. I'm sure you guys are familiar with Figma. Have you heard of Figma? - I haven't heard of this particular product, however, I do believe I've heard of products that are similar in nature. Big My is fucking cool. I just started working with this week ago, super impressed with it. Well, first of all, what is it? It's, it's all web based. Okay. You can, you can do the Chrome wrapper thing where you can save it to your desktop and have a desktop app, but it's just a Chrome browser. It's all done in the browser. And it's really good performance for being in the browser. And it's a design prototype tool. But I like about Figma. It does have a lot of utility for mobile app development, which I'm not doing a lot of that either. I'm trying to pet project there on doing some react native as well just to get up to speed. But that's another story. This is great for mobile development because you can create your layers. It's very similar to Photoshop. If you're in Photoshop, the concepts are much the same. You have layers and you can different overlays and blends and effects and all of that. but it's super easy. It takes out a lot of the, I mean, I think I think one challenge with Photoshop, it's not an easy tool is to show up and start using. It wasn't for me 15 years ago or 20 years ago, even when it was like Photoshop 4 or 3, whatever it was, you know, it required, I did it again. Oh, the fuck it. It requires a lot of time, a lot of patience, a lot of tutorials, and then you pick it up and you can do it, but this is a simpler approach to get in. So it has layering, it has all these things. You can create your screens or your views, and it's a rapid prototyping tool. So you can see what your view is gonna look like on different form factors. iPhone 10, iPhone 6, Pixel 2, Galaxy, whatever the mobile devices, you can see, and it has special tooling built in to help you design the layouts for it. So you can say, well, okay, here's how I'm going to set it up the first time. And I want, if it's a larger device, and I want to make sure that the image stays centered. And if it's a smaller device than, you know, whatever, you start out on the small one, you can tell it how to scale up. And you can even get as sophisticated as linking those pages together. So you could have what looks like a functional application that's all just done through this web software through this web page. So this is where I was saying earlier that I've seen similar products like this that do really what this amounts to is it's like a visual wireframe, right? So back in the day, you would create wireframes and you would create, you know, they were literally wireframes. They look like wire documents and you would create multiples of these and it would kind of show the flow of an application. So you'd show one screen and then maybe there's a button in the wireframe and then you would say, "Oh, if you click this button, then you go to the next document," which is another wireframe for the next view. Well, what this does instead is it provides you a actual interactive clickable document that you can actually do the same type of thing. So it's a much more modernized approach to wireframe. - And it skips a few steps in the design process because really you're not even wireframing at this point. Wireframing that you don't have consideration for the look and feel really. It's about placement and-- - Yep, it's kind of layering them all together. It's layering design and wire framing into one product. - It comes with a few different templates that you get out of the box to play with. And so the one that they have here is this Art Museum app. And there are three, six, nine pages. And there have kind of been this linear fashion. You can see each page and hide it and show it or whatever. But it looks like the final application. You even have the iPhone graphics with the battery status on top and the Wi-Fi in the time. Every detail of the final app is encapsulated in the design here and then you can go as far as to export CSS. If you want to use the CSS that generates for you, you can. You don't have to. But really nice, I think for starting a project, especially when, you know, if you're doing of freelance work or working on a tight deadline. It's a nice way to get something quickly prototyped, present it to the business stakeholders who maybe aren't so sure what they want or they're going to want to make these changes. If you started developing this, they're going to make 100 changes. Well, here you go. You put it on this screen and you show them kind of how to point and click and they can already make those decisions and say, "No, I don't like this. We need to remove this page, make that a modal dialogue," whatever it is. And you're going to save a ton of time because you can almost have it. You really have a complete product here that you can start developing then and skin it and often go. Yeah, I think if you're not using this sort of a tool to do your design and prototyping, I think then you're probably stuck in this Stone Age a little bit. This is definitely in mobile development for sure is what everybody does. This is the standard that everybody does. I don't know if that's true of the desktop space quite as much, but it should be. I think this is definitely a pretty solid tool that I would definitely love to use if If I was working on prototyping anything new. Yeah, like I said, I have a project coming up that I'm working on. That's react native and I'm going to use this. I've been out of the space long enough. I didn't know that these things were out there with these capabilities. So this has been good. This was a good one for me. Figma.com, F-I-G-M-A.com. Check it out. Yeah. Cool product. We'll save the others for Roundup Part 2. That was a brief Roundup, little intro and design prototyping for mobile apps. I don't know. I guess since we're going to do that, is there anything in the design space you want to talk about? I know this creative cloud. The challenge that I've seen and the arguments against creative cloud is that it's a desktop app that exists in the cloud. It hasn't pivoted to cover collaboration very well for teams doing design the way that we do Slack and we have chat now, right? We have these ways that we can communicate like that. You don't have that with the creative cloud in the way that you start to see with. There's Figma, there's another one to Damit. What's the name of the other one? - Not totally. Sure what you mean by creative cloud either. - The Adobe Creative Suite. - Oh, got you. Okay. Just the fact that Adobe is a cloud offering now, it really can be misleading. It isn't a web. It is in the web while you download the app and it connects to the cloud. It's an extended version of the desktop application. Did it really bring additional collaboration to the program? I don't think the collaboration there is what-- it's not the slack of design, right? It's still a desktop app that happens to have a cloud back end and backbone. Yeah. Every creative cloud product that I use, which is primarily Lightroom and Photoshop. They are cloud backed and that you can store your files in the cloud, but I don't think that there's a lot of collaborative tools in there. Lightroom does give you support to be able to do some of the editing in via a web browser, and it'll translate to your desktop app as well, but it's not the full application on the web or just the application being on the web. It's a little bit of a different paradigm. >> The other design tool I was talking about that is Sketch. Do you sketch before? Oh, sure. I mean, I've not used it, but I definitely know about-- no of it. Yeah, Mac only. That was one-- I'm not a designer, but I was one consideration for getting a Mac because that I would have to hack and touch this thing if I wanted to use Sketch. It's not a web-based product, but it's very much a-- looks like a teamwork collaboration design tool. Yeah, I think it's very, very popular on the Mac, but yeah, I'm not a designer either, so I've not really had the opportunity to use it. I'm sure Casey or somebody at work probably has used the crap out of it. So next time we'll under the toolbox roundup part two, we'll talk IDEs. Ooh, I like talking about that. There's been some really cool stuff going on in the IDEs space. Why, you take us in the news here. We don't have a ton of time left, but there's a few things we wanted to talk about in the news. I was going to skip out of the Google Calendar update one unless you really, really want to talk about that. I don't know that there's really all that much to talk about there. I'll talk on it briefly just because I've been a Google Calendar user for a while. forever. They're phasing out the design. So you're going to new design. I like the design. This isn't a complaint. I think this is great. I wish they did this a long time ago. Actually, I like it. I don't know how you feel about it, but it's already showing up. If you're in the Google, the G Suite now, the old Google Apps for your domain, if you're a G Suite owner, so you've got a custom domain using Google tools, you can enable that feature in your admin panel and get it. And everybody else will get it on Google end of February. Yeah, I'm so far. I'm a very big fan that the design was cleaned up quite heavily. It looks far more modern. It adheres to the Google material design standards. It's much, much more responsive than the old site is. I would say effectively it's easier to use. to use things are more obvious and much more properly placed in terms of UI. So yeah, overall, I think it's a great update. And I use Google Calendar for all my personal calendars. And I have one with my wife that we share same for shared events. So I mean, we definitely use Google Calendar on a regular basis, although maybe not directly through the Google site. I'm definitely utilizing the service quite regularly. Very good. enough said about the Google calendar designs. I'm not sure what I was talking about, but I thought it was worthy of bringing up. It's gonna look different. If you can get on it now, check it out. It's pretty cool. - Let's talk about Windows 10 sets. Yeah, have you tried this yet? I haven't got my hands on this one yet. - I have not tried it. I watched the video that they provide at the URL that we have here in the show notes. And it looked really cool. It's a really interesting concept. The idea of the whole thing is that for each window that you have in Windows, you effectively get tabs just like you would have in most modern browsers. The tabs aren't restricted to Windows functions. What you might have is a window with Chrome loaded in it, for instance, I guess. You might have another tab in that window that is Photoshop. You might have another tab that is Windows Explorer, and you might have another tab that's, whatever, XYZ application, it doesn't matter. You can have effectively different apps loaded into different tabs. So this is some trippy shit. What happens if you put Chrome inside of a tab? Do you get tabs in tabs? I would expect because, I mean, effectively, what you have is you have a container application inside that window, right? Yeah. level layer of tabs and then you'd have a layer of tabs for Chrome below that active tab. Wow. That's some crazy shit to contemplate. So the really cool function of this that I was really impressed with in the demo that they did via the video was that if you close out of all, let's say you create some sort of document and close out of all the windows and tabs that you have open. The next time that you come and you open that document, it remembers what applications you had open in parallel while you were making modifications to that document. And it'll ask you if you want to reopen all those applications in addition to the document. So effectively bringing you right back to the workspace that you were using when you created the document in the first place, which that's pretty damn cool. I'm very excited about this feature. I think it's long time coming. It's going to change the way that you work in Windows. And here's the deal. It's awkward now. It's awkward the way it works. Because we are on the internet a ton, you've got Chrome with 100 tabs open, and you gotta try to juggle between what's going on. You can have them split off, so you could have maybe if you're doing Project A, you can have Chrome open with three or four things. If you're using Google Docs, then maybe you can have your Word document in one tab. You can have the browser in another tab. It's somewhat context relevant. Oh, that was a name that's familiar to me. That was an old company. That's a company that doesn't exist anymore. They're not there anymore. That's right. They change names. Anyway, I'm excited about this because this is how you should be working. It provides a context for everything that you're doing. So I'm working on a project and maybe I need to have a code editor open. And I need-- yeah, that was an example. Visual Studio Code. I want to have Visual Studio Code or Visual Studio open. And I'm constantly on Stack Overflow. So why not have a tab in Visual Studio Stack Overflow that I can go and search for whatever I'm working on? And maybe I want to have another tab for the local host application that I'm working on. There's all kinds of things you could do here. If you're doing a research paper, you can have a Word document for that. And you can have four tabs for different things you're researching and maybe a YouTube channel that has clips about it too. And they're all in one place. Now you're not going back and forth and doing as much task switching to find one thing or another. It's all in this bundled up little window. That's interesting that you are kind of alluding to it being a more organized methodology, which I do kind of agree. It's funny because I have a note here that says lack of organization. Oh. I was trying to be difficult again tonight, aren't you Kyle? Hey, well, you know, I can't, you know, we got to have differing views here. We're going to become boring. Let me hear this. I'm excited. I really set you up for that one. I know this better be a fucking gem right here. What I was kind of thinking, I guess, is that as you are opening these applications or these sets of applications, I can see them in the future getting very, very unwieldy. I know a lot of people that already have, for instance, kind of tab mania in chrome. You know they have 50 tabs open at one time and I watch people like click tab to tab to tab to tab to figure out what the hell they have open. All you can see is the icon. There's no way you're reading next up there. Maybe in some cases I see that you can't even see that it just looks like a little like triangle kind of. Wow that's pretty hardcore. So I mean I can see some of that kind of thing occurring here and that being problematic. in addition to if you have, in your scenario, let's say you have, I don't know, six different kind of groupings that are context aware, right? So maybe you have your group for work, over here you have your group for home, over here you have a group doing something for some side projects, I don't know, whatever. See you have like six different groups. Well, without kind of being really apparent, you all of a sudden have 15 to 20 applications open right that are all drawing resource. So it feels like it could easily become really resource intensive without you having a whole lot of, I don't know, insight as to why that's happening or how that's happening. I don't know. It feels like that could get lost very easily. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. You know, if you, you, because if you think about to your example, you know, you have a stack overflow, you have your visual studio, you have your local host, whatever, your visual studio is a hog, chrome is a hog, and you just minimize that tab set down to the toolbar, right? And now that's still running, all those programs are still running, but you might have now another tool set up that you're doing stuff with. And maybe let's say one of them's a game, maybe you're gaming now. Well, all that shit's still running, right? - Yeah. - So I feel it's a little unwieldy in that respect. And maybe when you get your hands on it, maybe those things will change and it'll feel a lot more comfortable, but just from the brief overview that I got from the video that kind of felt like, man, this could get kind of out of control really quickly and be resource-insensitive more so than you might expect. It's something to keep in mind. I would need to have the experience before I could say. It's hard to picture for me what it would be like. I like the idea conceptually, but maybe if I'm in there doing it, then I have a different opinion about it. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Until you get your hands on it, I'd It's hard to make a guess as to how it exactly. It's going to work based on the short video demo that they gave. The deal is it's in the insider program. People can get access to that already if they are on the fast track to Windows updates. Running insider on that, but I don't know. I should pay attention to how this needs to be done. The other caveat, of course, is that in the preview it works on universal Windows platform applications, which I'm not. I don't use those. Cool, yeah, I'm excited to see. Is there a rollout date for this? Do they have any idea when this was actually going to roll out? I didn't see. Yeah, they, I don't believe they have any kind of, yeah, it's early, not committing to delivery time. No guarantee they'll be in the next major update, da da da da da, doing March or April. And because it's so complex, it could take a lot longer. So who knows? It may never see the light of day, but it's an interesting concept. Part and parcel to that is the Windows timeline. Do you see that? That's in there too. No, I didn't see that. I can't talk a whole lot about it, but that was interesting because it was a different view that was based on timeline of all the things you're using. So if you have 50 windows open, this is your complexity issue, right? They're trying to resolve that. So you go to the timeline view and now it'll show you what you've been most recently working on. You can go back down the timeline and find your word document or whatever from four hours ago buried down in there somewhere. It gives you a nicer representation of through time, what you've been working on. Yeah, I think that's a very helpful tool. you know, recently opened or just, you know, straight text lists of recently used or opened things isn't always helpful. So I think that's a, it'd be nice to have a very visual diagram of what you've been using lately. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. So yeah, up next is a story that kind of became hot news for a short time. Recently where Firefox began the auto installation of an add-on that people had not requested and people didn't know what in the hell it was. So what happened here is that Firefox installed an add on that was a kind of companion, I guess, to this game called Mr. Robot. it enhanced the game in some way. User started noticing this. They started noticing this new add-on in their browser, and they were starting to worry that they were hacked, or that something was happening with their machine in some nefarious way, because none of them installed this. There was no notification that it was happening. >> Oh, Mr. Robot was a TV series there on Netflix. >> It just says in the article that it was a Mr. Robot mystery game, a companion or enhances a Mr. Robot mystery game. Okay. I think something about it is a promotional campaign between Firefox and the TV series, brings an alternate reality game to your browser. So there's the game. A lot of users thought they got hacked. Yep. The description was really poor. It just, the description of the actual add-on just says, "My reality is simply different than yours." So it wasn't even helpful to understand what it was. So people were really freaking out and wondering what this add on was all about. Well, the bigger problem here is that Firefox generally has always been a champion of security and kind of user, users being independent or not being forced into doing things that they don't want to do. So this was really, really out of their nature to do something like this. And I don't really understand how this made it through any kind of logical steps to get released. I don't know how somebody didn't stop this and say no this is a horrible idea. What the hell are we doing? Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. I don't know about that. So I have the Firefox browser. I downloaded the, what the hell is the new one called again? The Oracle. I don't remember the Oracle. The Oracle. We'll go with the Oracle. I have the new Firefox browser. Firefox the Ocho? I forgot. I have the new Firefox browser and we talked about it on another episode. However, Firefox quantum, by the way. There you go. That's right. It has its own performance issues or at least for me, it has performance issues that have made it kind of a non-starter. So I didn't experience this myself, but apparently a ton of other people did and it blew up on Reddit and of course all the news outlets and stuff like that carried it. And it was a big deal for a minute and it's died down about as quickly as it blew up. So. Wow. And that brings us to the end of the news and on to what's news for next week's show. Well, I'm really going to give you a teaser next week because I only have one item that I'm going to talk about today. So you're going to have to really tune in if you're curious to know what else is on on the docket. But next week is Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas. Well, by the time this airs, it will be Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas. The next episode, we will hopefully be bringing you some of the news and events and updates and exciting products and big screens and latest news and consumer electronics should be some really cool stuff happening in home automation, virtual reality, augmented reality, mobile. We already know about some of the new laptops, the ultra books. The few other people followed suit after Google, after Dell came out today with the XPS update. I think HP released some stuff. So there's some stuff leaking now. And we're going to hear a lot more by the next episode. So my wife, you know, Lauren said she would be doing some Intel for us down there. She's going out there to represent her company, which is really cool. We should talk about them sometime too, but they're in a tech rehab space. So they do augmented reality and virtual reality for rehab. And they have some cool devices. They have a smart glove and some other things. They have some new products that they're unveiling too, I believe. So I don't know what they are. I can't talk about it. I don't even know. So don't ask me. But don't worry next week out in Vegas. So I'd like to be able to talk about some of that stuff and I'm sure we'll have some other amazing riveting. Maybe we can get our colleague on to talk about some of his points on that neutrality next time too. That'd be awesome. Yeah, we'll be talking about absurdly large TVs with ridiculous resolutions and yeah, well, yeah, pretty soon you have to be looking at your TV with like a magnifying glass to see all the detail. Yeah, awesome. I hope that this sounds okay. I'm noticing that I was talking quieter this time. I Can do that. Oh, yeah, I see that yours are minor all the way at the top. What the fuck? You're running hot and I'm kind of right. You got a steam I need some I'm gonna take this weekend off because it was just a fucking week Hold on happen this week a lot of content was created this weekend a lot of good work was happened to Yeah, I'm excited dude. This is an experiment. We're trying to figure out what works what doesn't and There's no rules here. I got a $30 credit today on Facebook So I boosted our posts. I boosted your post on the coffee code cast on number seven Okay, it looks like It's it's just been running for a few hours, so we'll give it some time and see what happens Cool. Yeah, I mean if you just happen to catch the right person in theory I mean that could back and make it blow up all by itself That's another Gary Vaynerchukism by the way one is greater than zero Yeah, absolutely. I would agree with that. Yeah, 100 percentile so that's our that's our motto to we like that one is greater than zero So we're not looking for a million, but we just need to get one. We're gonna get one more. So that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna hustle and it's happening. You get our hustle on? Get our hustle on. [Music] (gentle music) [Music] [Music] (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [Music] (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [Music] (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [Music] [Music] (soft music) - Dada, da, da, da, da, psh, post show. All right. (laughing) What's going on? What do you have here? - Yeah, so I just wanna do talk a little bit about customer service. And let's come up for me a number of times this week. The most recent one yesterday came up because we sometimes order our groceries a Safeways delivery program? I don't know if you're familiar with that at all. I know they do a delivery service. It's similar to Amazon Fresh. Yes, exactly, but they don't have a monthly fee to do it. So we've done that a number of times and had pretty good success with it. Generally, if you give them a four-hour window of availability, they'll give you free delivery even. So we've traditionally done that, and it's worked really well. Well, the last three times that we've done this, it's been nothing but a shit show. So the probably what two weeks ago maybe I did an order and what the hell happened there? I made the order and it processed it or at least indicated that it processed it and it'll happen. I'm trying to remember. And ultimately what ended up happening is something went wrong and I called their customer service and they said, "Well, the order never went through so don't worry about it. Just go ahead and go online and reorder." Oh, come on. So I was like, "All right. Well, I'll go ahead and do that. That's not a problem." Whatever. So I went ahead and did that, set up the delivery for the next day and it came and it arrived like a shit of and I went to the door and I got the groceries from the guy and I was bringing him upstairs to put him back. And the same dude knocks on my door about five minutes later and he has the same fucking order again and he's like this one's for you too. And it's all the same shit. It's the same exact shit in duplicate. So that pissed me off. Well fast forward to gosh what was it maybe earlier this week I guess I put in another order and everything went through correctly. We got an order confirmation. We had a delivery window. Everything was great. The fuckers never showed up ever it never never never happened. Oh fuck so it took came out of our account They took our money like everything was fought everything looked correct, but yeah, they never showed up so Stay about this So Christina wrote him a pretty bitchy email, you know and said something to the effect of What the fuck's going on? You know, we're never ordering from you again. This is horrible blah blah blah blah blah Yeah, you give us twice and shit and then none of it. - And they reply and like just are like, hey, we're gonna give you your money back, that's it. They didn't say sorry, they didn't say, hey, let us make it up to you, they didn't say, hey, let us deliver. I was just like kind of flabbergasted by the lack of customer service that was shown, I guess is what I was getting at. - And here's what I'm gonna say about this. Here's the fucking thing, like I will not shed a tear when safeway closes, it's fucking dorsed. People have a problem with Amazon and the domination of Amazon, there's a fucking reason why Amazon is worth $8 trillion or whatever they're out of their worth today, right? It's because their customer service is phenomenal. That would never happen to Amazon. You would never have that happen. And if they would, they would give you the whole fucking order for free before they would do something like that. Exactly. Exactly. You know, it makes me sad. I am sympathetic to the workers that would be displaced. I'm sympathetic to, you know, you now you have these vacant retail buildings. that's not good for the community. I understand that, but you, as a business, have to get your shit together and do your shit right. If you're winning in business, then they're not gonna have that problem and they're not trying to adapt. When you're that's your customer service model, is that I don't give a fuck? Then I don't care that you're going out of business. Then good riddance, like be gone yesterday. And somebody else will come in and do it better. - Yep, it boggles my mind. I mean, it's very obvious in business that the customer is always first, right? If you please a customer, you're going to make money because the customer is going to come back to you and they're going to pay you and they're going to love you and things are going to be great. Even our company made this mistake at some point and kind of got, for lack of a better word, they got greedy and they didn't treat the customer correctly and it fucked us over, right? Now we're going the other way and we're treating the customers really, really well and hey, what do you know? Here comes floods of money, right? So it just boggles my mind that Safeway would be this way and act this way, especially from a company of their size. Yeah, it's irresponsible. They're doing a disservice to their own employees because they are going to go out of business and nobody's in a fucking care because they're going to have Amazon who shows up in 30 minutes and gets it right and if they don't get it right, then they make it right. So, fuck 'em. Exactly. So, yeah, that's all I had. It was just kind of a bitch that I was a gripe, I guess, that I was just like, damn dude, like what the hell is wrong with these companies? it like customer services everything right especially if you're working in an online business where you don't have face-to-face interactions and you can't correct mistakes like that just kind of on you know on the fly yeah customer service is everything and not everybody can afford to say hey you know what we're gonna give you that for free fine I'm not asking for that just handle it in a better way right don't act like uh hey I don't really give a fuck that maybe you needed those groceries for a specific event or you had to go out of your way to replace them because they never showed up You know, fuck that, but here's your money back. It would have been a whole different thing entirely if they said, "Oh my gosh, you know, we're so sorry, like this has been going out with our system." Whatever it is, we're gonna make it up to you, we're gonna send the order out, you know, the soonest we can send out is this time. And, you know, whatever, maybe we'll give you a gift card for next time or throw in. I don't know, whatever it is, but they approached the attitude that they had was just unacceptable. Yeah, I mean, they did say they did apologize. I guess they say we apologize for the inconvenience of being charged for an order that you did not receive which sounds really fucking condescending right. Yeah, Alicia, Alicia with contact ID 35477582. Yeah. That line was probably pinned to the you know, court board on our desk next to the. No, that line was in there fucking here's our auto responder for people that are bitching about their order shooting in a fucking read it. Oh man. Well, I'm sorry to hear that and now you know. I guess I'll pay $15 to order from Amazon fresh now. Well, I don't know. I don't like that. I don't like the fact that they're the only show in town but they are doing things right and that people should take notice. Safeway should care. There should be somebody out there who's saying, look, we can win on customer service. Maybe we don't have the most streamlined process. Maybe we don't have the greatest prices on everything, but we're going to make sure that we provide good service. And I think that's who wins, you know? [Bell]