46 min read

29: Apple Services Event

This week we are covering Apples “services” media event where they announced several subscription services that are either available now or later this year including Apple News+, Apple Arcade, Apple TV Channels and the Apple Card
29: Apple Services Event

Apple Media Event

This week we are covering Apple “services” media event where they announced several subscription services that are either available now or later this year including Apple News+, Apple Arcade, Apple TV Channels, and the Apple Card

Bad Tesla News

The title says it all.  Kyle brings up his favorite topic “Tesla”, but this time it’s not good news.

Show Notes

Full Transcript


Hey everybody and welcome to episode no.

No volume for Mike.

We've got technical difficulties.


I don't know, maybe it's working. I just don't hear it.

I hear you.

Hey, Gomer, can you hear us out there?

(upbeat music)

- Okay, he can, let it rumble, man.

- So you just can't hear me?

- Yeah.

- All right, well, I don't know what's causing that.

Well, after all the technical problems here,

welcome to episode 29 of the Coffee Code Cast,

Weekly live stream tech podcast where we talk about neither coffee or coat.

I'm Kyle Johnson.

Now Mike Sheehan.

And today we're going to talk about all the big news come out of Apple special

media event this Monday.

Uh, you're going to want to stick around for this, several new services coming

out of Apple headquarters, lots of cool stuff to talk about there.

And, uh, we're also going to be covering a little bit of a show news follow up here.

We got some bad Tesla news, unfortunately.

I'm bummed that we have to cover this,

but I'm interested to hear about that.

And finally, yeah, a couple things in the news.

Take it away, Kyle.

- Well, the first thing I wanted to talk about real quickly,

we've had a lot of feedback lately, right?

A lot of people are reaching out,

a lot of people are responding to things we're talking about.

And it kind of just dawned on me.

It's really pretty cool that we,

I feel like we're kind of in a situation

almost where it's like just a room full of your buddies

talking technology, which is, I guess kind of ironic, because that's kind of the whole

reason that the show started. But the other day, I just kind of felt myself feeling that,

you know, we have people reaching out on teams, Slack, Twitter, whatever, all over the place.

And it's just kind of fun talking tech, have the buddies with you, talking with you. It's

a good time.

Well, it's good. And by the way, quick here, quick thing here, make sure you tighten your

audio cables when you plug in your headphones. Oh, shit. That was all over here on my end

over here. So, well, that was that was fun. Sorry about that. Why don't you bear me, man?

I need some more beer.

- Oh!

- Too many problems too earlier.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, Kyle, I agree with you, dude.

It's been really fun because doing this thing live now

for eight weeks, we've seen some really impressive

steady growth.

I mean, we're not doing fucking hockey stick growth here,

but our numbers are increasing really steadily

week over week.

I think the consistency has a lot to do with that.

Getting the word out has had a lot to do with that.

We've done a few things, not much,

but a few things to try to promote this weekly cast

six o'clock and have had some people join us online during the show.

I love that.

Also, too, gotten more interest from people that want to be on the show.

So I think I was telling you a little bit earlier, I had a meeting with a good buddy

of mine who's in crypto and talked a little bit about the show and he was very excited.

He's done some podcasts with iHeartRadio and a few other shows and would love to come on

and talk to us.

So I think out of this, we're getting where we wanted to go, which is finding other people

to come on and share their insights and opinions.

I mean, I like talking to you, you know,

but there's only so much we can really cover, you know,

we need some other voices in the audience and on the show.

So we're starting to build up and it's very exciting.

- And to your point, I want to quickly welcome anybody

listening from Niantic.

That's the company my wife works for currently.

If you're familiar with the game Pokemon Go.

- No, no, no, it wasn't Pokemon Go, it was the other one.

Christina told us this last week, dude.

Ingress. Ingress. They make that as well. I know, but they want to be known for Ingress. My apologies.

The makers of Ingress and Pokemon Go, they're lesser known. That's right. They're lesser known,

lesser appreciated contribution to the gaming community. Yes.

But yeah, she's been taking our stickers and splashing them around at the office, so there's a bunch of them

flowing around there and people are subscribing over there. So if anybody's listening, welcome to the show.

Another interesting point that apparently they started pulling up my Twitter account

Once they kind of heard about the podcast here. You're on Twitter. I'm on to of course

I'm on Twitter @KyleP Johnson on Twitter if you want to follow me follow me up everybody the peas important otherwise

There's like nine hundred and sixty four thousand Kyle

Johnson's out there

Yep, so funny funny story is they were kind of looking through my profile and the first thing that somebody noticed right away

Is that apparently I'm followed by Barack Obama?

He sure was it's not like you know how Donald Trump has like the Donald Trump account

It's not like Barack Obama. No, it's the official Barack Obama verified Twitter account

Really? So I'm one of his half a million follow half a million people that he follows. Damn dude

That's pretty cool. Yeah, so maybe maybe you listen to the cast. I told you this the other day

The biggest celebrity that I have on my account is Anthony Scurramucci the mooch the mooch we get the mooch on here

I'd fucking let the mooch come on to the show

Yeah, why not? You know that'd be interesting. That would definitely give us a bump in

listeners, dude, if we had the mooch on the show that'd be awesome. Yeah, that'd be great. I gotta give you know

I'm a little frustrated man. Like we only had one can of Coors light we had to share between us here

Dustin where the fuck is Dustin our beer guy got to blow him up

Dustin you need to order more beer dude. I told you two weeks ago. We're running low on Coors light. Why don't you get that fixed man?

Maybe throw that in there real quick the Gummer pile here. He's he made himself a home brew

Beer keg in a fridge. So maybe maybe we can enlist his services. We get a little sample

Yeah, can you put those in a couple crawlers for us and ship them out here to the other?

I don't know if he makes the beer, but I know he made a kegerator or something. Okay, we do need a coffee coca cast kegerator

Man, we need some better sponsors

We have spin coffee if they ever make a coffee maker. We'll have some delicious coffee in here

Put some Baileys in that little Irish whiskey, maybe I'm gonna send a message to spin see what we can do

Yeah, we talked about them enough and we're gonna continue to have

Spin updates for the next several years

Yeah, they're gonna keep us they're gonna keep us chock full of content for the next four years exactly

So we might as well they might as well sponsor us. They should give us something free t-shirt or

Something like that would be a wonderful. Yeah

That's good. I wanted to touch up on something that we talked about last week was last week

wasn't it I lose track anymore. We talked about touchpad mode which got a lot of

feedback from people so this is the feature in iOS right where you

press and hold on the spacebar and you can get the it kind of acts like a

trackpad yeah touchpad yeah couple updates on that right one was that you

can you can move that thing anywhere so Strejak our good friend Simon you know

reached out and said hey it's not just the spacebar you can do that kind of on

other parts of the keyboard too so he'll he does that like kind of in the middle

I don't know, we'll put up a little text message.

- Yeah, any character key, you can push down on any key,

not just the space bar, yep.

- Like throw it over by the DFG, there you go,

that works too, so it's not just the space bar.

Press and hold and then boom, you got a little touch pad.

- Yep, and I think it does even work

even on alternate keyboards,

'cause you can install third-party keyboards,

like say the Google keyboard,

and I'm pretty sure the same procedure works on those as well.

- So we were trying to get to the bottom of it,

and Simon did some research for us,

and he was trying to figure out how early it came out.

We didn't know how long the feature had been out.

And he thought maybe it was around the iPhone 6,

wasn't sure, you know, maybe only on the 6S,

but not the 6, and he tried it on his 6

and it works there too, so we're not really sure.

I did a little research and I found that back in 2016,

they were talking about it, so we're a little late

to the game on that.


So maybe three years ago.

It sounds like that you had to have the,

oh, that's a, oh!

Gomer's sending us a photo of his, uh, his calculator.

That's what it, yeah, it must be.

Oh, that looks pretty cool, dude.

Let's see here.

That looks like, uh, so what do you got up top?

You got the, okay.

You got a tap down below and then you still got the freezer up there too.

That's very nice.


Very sweet.

I like that.

Um, was I talking about touchpad mode?

So we know that in 2016 it came out on some devices that have 3D touch.

However, it was not available on all devices until iOS 12.

At that time, all the hardware could support it.

So that's all I really have to say about that.

Didn't you say it came to the iPad first?

Well, I think it was on certain iPads and certain iPhones.

I don't know that it came first on the iPad,

but I think it was available both.

And yeah, so there we go.

That doesn't really totally solve it,

but I know that it's been around at least as early as 2016

on select devices.

Yeah, Che.

Well, let me share a quick story with you.

So this weekend, the wife and I were doing

the typical chores, running out, getting groceries,

that sort of thing.

We made a trip to Costco.

Oh, yes. As you do.

All 500 million people that are in the Costco parking lot.

The Holy Land, everyone to send down Saturdays

for Sunday. Yeah, that's right.

So yeah, we made our way to Costco.

We went in, we got our stuff.

We got back in the car.

I'm getting ready to back on out.

Did you get any gas?

You get gas at Costco?

Oh, well, I mean, it's very cheap.

Maybe I just go take spots up from people

that want gas in the line.

I guess you don't need gas anymore.

I just sit there for 10 minutes.

You drive a Tesla now.

I guess you don't put any gas in there.

I don't even-- I actually did-- when

I went back to the Midwest, this is a little bit

of an off-topic subject.

But we had to drive a gas car back in the Midwest.

It was actually an old school.

A green Mustang.

It was hideous, but whatever.

By the way, they gave you this fucking car,

like in the middle of December.

- In a snow and ice storm.

- During a snow and ice storm,

it's like, well, we don't really have any SUVs,

but we got a fucking pimp green Mustang

that just rolled off a lot.

I mean, nobody drove in it before.

- It was brand new, had like three miles on it.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they gave you that to go cruising on Midwestern.

That's nice.

- I got made fun of actually a number of times,

but that's a different story.

Yeah, before I returned to it,

I had to fill it up with fuel, you know?

And it took me a minute to remember how the fuck to pump gas

'cause I hadn't done it in so long.


But yeah, we were at the Costco parking lot

and as I was backing up,

when you put the Tesla in reverse,

the outside mirrors or the rear view mirrors on the,

I don't know what you call those,

the fuck do you call them?

The what?

The rear view mirrors on like the outside,

I don't know.

Side view mirrors.

Sure, those both go down.

So like they basically wanna look at the ground

kind of at the rear of the car.

So they don't look straight behind you anymore.

Well they change the orientation of it.

Yeah, okay.

So there's that and then obviously you have the rear view mirror, but then I'm pretty sure there was some fidgeting going on with like the climate controls on the on the dash

Monitor, which is where usually the reverse cam is displayed. Yes. So that was no longer there. And so what happened is I ran into a utility truck that was parked behind directly behind me.

This thing was fucking huge. I mean, in your defense, it was sticking out about six feet behind the parking space.

Yeah, it's I mean, it's one of those boom utility trucks, right?

It can lift somebody up quite a ways up to a pole or whatever utility type thing

you need to get to.

But yeah, I was it was sticking out probably a good five feet from the end

of all the other car lines.

So like as I was kind of looking back over my shoulder, you know, I was kind

of figuring, oh, you know, I can kind of use the other cars as a gauge.

And I couldn't see nor did the Tesla see the truck because the deck of it was

too high.

So the sensors didn't detect it either.

So yeah, I hit the rear end of the Tesla. I damaged the trunk lid

Put a hole in it actually. Yeah

Puncture a hole through the trunk. Yeah, so that and then a couple of deterrent signal is all jacked up to so

$4,200 worth of damage. Oh

And the worst part is you know, and I think we've talked about this before on the show is that the Tesla is is

Notorious for their parts being really slow to be ordered

What's that about? Is it just they're too busy focusing on selling new vehicles and the parts

that just I don't know are there a lot of people crashing their cars and they can't make the parts

fast enough I don't really understand the problem there. Well it used to be not the parts I don't

think it used to be that there was no shops that could work on them. Yeah I did hear that yes yeah.

I think now there's quite a few that can work on them but yeah it seems like the parts are the

bottleneck but I did hear recently and I'll see if I can find the article but they're they're opening

some very large new parts warehouse that in theory maybe will help. I don't know. I don't

know if it's a logistics problem or if they just can't create them fast enough. I have

no idea. But yeah, so now the Tesla is damaged and it will be for probably the next two months

or so while the parts are ordered. That's how long it takes to get them in. And then

it's another 10 days on top of that to do the bodywork and the paint and all that kind

of stuff. So that sucks.

She's still roadworthy, but just doesn't look the prettiest anymore.

Hey, I mean, it's got some nice mailing tape on the back to cover up all the, you know,

holes in the very nice in the lights and put a little ziplock bag and cut it out

and put the tape around it so it covers up the I think there's a I think there's

like a Reddit channel like Tesla mods or something like that you oh that'd be a

good idea post some I can get some serious upvotes dude I think a lot of

people would be interested in how you did it it's some professional quality where

it looks about as good as this this kegerator well the way you describe you

know take it easy on go but the kegerator is nine years old it's been used

and abused and still serving cold beer, man.

That's all you really ask of a kegerator anymore, right?

It's just a serving cold.

- Yeah.

- I can't even get that from my neighborhood bar,

so I'm impressed that the kegs

don't have for nine years on it.

- So there you go, I gave some bad Tesla news.

It happened on this show.

You heard it here.

- Yeah, I'm sorry, man.

I mean, I kind of feel like that's karma.

You've been asking for Tesla news every episode.

Something bad was bound to happen.

Maybe we need to stick to other topics sometimes.

I don't know.

Not my, I'm just saying.

I don't know, just throwing it out there.

- Yeah, I don't really have anything to say to that.

- I'm sorry, that's not, too soon, man, too soon.

I'm sorry, feel bad for you.

I'm sorry, it's a brand new car.

- I did come in and our boss Brad,

I came into his office and I was like, Brad, man,

I have some bad news, man, I need some,

what the hell do they call that, time off when you--

- Bereavement leave?

- Yeah, I was like, I need some bereavement leave.

- Something like that?

- And he's like, oh shit, what the hell happened, man?

And I show him the picture.


My car, yeah, well he's got two Teslas,

so he knows your pain.

Yeah, identifies.

He told me that he has a ding in his new one,

in his Model 3 as well.

Right next to where you plug in

the electric old cord for charging,

so he's like, I see it all the goddamn time!

Oh, that sucks.

Dude, it looks like, we got a little time,

I can tell the story, it's a funny story.

You know the Brad Tesla story, going down,

he's got his place, what is it, seaside?

I think that's right, yeah.

Southside, some side.

He's got a place down in Oregon that's kind of a little vacation home slash Airbnb

place that they run out frequently, but then they go down there to do a lot of

the deep cleaning and fix it. Cause people go in and they kind of bust it up.

And the people that he has on, you know, nearby to help out or really just doing

the basic stuff, like they're just kind of swapping out the sheets and doing

laundry. And that's where he goes to his vacation home to work.

Right. It's yeah. I mean, he's not very happy about it, but so he does.

And so this particular weekend, I mean, we should just have him tell the story. He's not here right now

But I'll give it the best go I can I can do so they went decide to go down there for the weekend

And I think there was already some it was already questionable should we go'd we really want to go fuck this whatever

We'll just go and do it and so they drive down there and

what happened man, they're on their way down and

They're on the highway and

He hits a fucking pothole and he gets a flat tire

And so he's got a call you can't just take this to like good year, right?

You got a call like the Tesla helpline. Yeah, roadside assistance from Tesla

So you need wrote yeah Tesla roadside assistance ready to go and

Call them up and they say okay fine man flat tire no problem. Where you at by this exit?

Ba-ba-ba I'll be there in like an hour and a half. I don't think it was a close pickup

They're gonna be a little delayed so

They go there and

Pick up the car and like tow it to the nearest place where they can service the thing

And it takes a few hours to do this and they

Like put on a brand new tire

Get him back on the road. He gets back on the highway

Before he's even like five miles down the road. He hits another fucking pothole and bust another tire

And by the way, like this is like a not a cheap repair. I think this was like, you know, I don't know four or five hundred bucks

Well, this is the Model S and these are low profile tires. So these are not cheap tires

That he might be even more than that. I don't even know it's like one tire and he busted it

We'll have to have him tell the whole story because I'm doing a shitty job

But anyway, so he calls him back and he's like look man, like I can't even fucking believe this like I'm

I'm right here and I hit this pothole like can you come help us out again and the guy's like oh fuck dude

I know exactly what pothole you're talking about like we have had problems with that. They haven't patched that in a long time

Went back out and picked them up again and brought them back and replaced a second Tesla tire

So it's been hours at this point. They haven't even made it to the rental and at that point

I think they were just like exhausted pissed all the emotions and just said fuck it

We're not even gonna go and swim back home, which is what like seaside's what maybe a four-hour drive. Maybe probably

I don't know where the hell it is. It's not close. Yeah, probably took

24 hours to make it however far they made it. Yeah, I mean it was just like a road trip from hell and

and terrible, terrible day for, you know,

for those guys on the road, man,

just sitting there and at the mercy

of the Tesla roadside assistance.

- The good thing that did come of that

is he was one of the first ones to tell me

that I should get the Tesla inflator kit.

So they actually give you like this pouch that has a pump.

- So like a fix-a-flat kind of thing.

- And then it has a can of that fix-a-flat shit in it.

And they actually want you to use that,

which I've always heard bad things.

Like if you do that, like, you know,

mechanics would hate you, right, that type of thing.

but Tesla wants you to use those

'cause that's kind of the only way you can continue on.

They don't give you a spare.

- Well, you're gonna spare them.

- A spare is more weight.

- Yeah.

- So you don't have a spare on a Tesla,

so that's kind of your only option.

- I mean, shit, it's 700 bucks a pop for a tire.

You might as well put, you know, I don't know.

Does it matter at that point?

They're gonna replace the whole thing anyway.

- True.

- Well, sad day, man.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Hopefully we can get the old Tesla road worthy again.

And don't worry everybody, there'll be good Tesla news coming soon.

Oh boy, okay, well let's move on.


Apple, big day, big week for Apple.

If you guys know they had a special event, a special media event was on Monday.

And did you hear about this Kyle?

It was a big event, I didn't get to watch it.

I was actually pretty busy that day, but I had it on my calendar and I knew,

I knew kind of the overall theme of what they were going to announce.

That was pretty well known ahead of time for the most part.

There was.

There was a lot of speculation about it and they got it right.

Most people got it right.

There's a few things going on right now though too.

Excuse me.

I would say that the need for this has been long coming mainly just because iPhone sales

are plateauing right.

They're going down actually.

I mean iPhone sales, they had to charge the last 10 S.

Now you're paying over $1,000 a phone.

So iPhone sales have been in decline for probably

four or five quarters.

And so they've had to raise prices

to try to keep their numbers inflated

and then come up with other strategies.

Like how do we do more?

We talked about the AirPods that you lose one a week

so you gotta keep,

they'll have an AirPods subscription program

coming out soon hopefully where you can buy

for a hundred bucks a month,

you get new AirPods or something.

- Well, you know what's funny about that

is that I've heard a couple of stories already

that it's a very good thing that these new version two

AirPods are coming out because everybody that bought

initially of the first generation AirPods,

the batteries are starting to give.

- Two years. - Yeah.

- Yeah, I saw Hanselman talk about that.

I think he mentioned that on Twitter,

but that's becoming a problem.

These things are not good for the landfill

because they're really just all one component.

You can't do anything with them.

And when the batteries die, you're screwed.

And even people that have had them over a year,

the battery life has declined to a point now

where you're not getting the stated talk times.

- Well, it's not even close.

Like you're talking, you know, like--

- Less than half.

- Yeah, exactly.

But I mean, it's a lithium ion battery.

Like, I mean, it's gonna happen,

especially for something that's that tiny

and used all the time.

Like they're gonna start to deteriorate.

- Not good for the environment,

not good for your pocket book at $159 a pop either.

- Well, if you don't buy the, you know,

wireless charging case,

Then I think it's 200 or 220 or something.

- Yeah, the case is like 79 bucks if you want to retrofit it.

They're not cheap and they have some,

clearly have some problems.

So anyway, like long story short,

Apple hardware has been,

well they've been crushing it.

It's just that like when you're trying to get

quarter over quarter growth, like how far can you go?

I mean, these guys have a massive market cap.

They're doing tremendous things.

Like there's only so many people

and so many devices you can push before you're just gonna

plateau and that's what's happened so

a lot of people weren't surprised by this but this media event was all about

services and so it's like they already have the software side kind of

cookin' and they've got the hardware doing very well

as well as they can go

so services was the big push for the Monday media event and they had

quite a few things to talk about

things I'm excited about I thought there was a lot of good that came out of

there, but there was some controversy too. It wasn't all very clear. But I'll start out

the top. We can kind of just scroll through these, dude. Like the first one was Apple

News Plus. I'm actually very excited about this. I'm a big news consumer. I actually

have subscriptions to multiple magazines. So I subscribe to like the Atlantic and Wired

and a few other things. Apple News Plus provides 300 magazines. They want to be kind of like

known as the Netflix of news.

So it works, if you're not a subscriber,

it works just as usual.

You go to Apple News, the app that everybody has

and you can watch, read your news stories

and all that good shit.

But then there's a new icon in the middle that's News Plus.

And if you get into that, it's 9.99 a month.

And you have access to all these magazines,

300 magazines that includes also the LA Times

and the Wall Street Journal,

which I was really excited about at first

because I'm a huge journal subscriber.

I paid way too much money for the journal.

I mean, I think it's money well spent,

but it's not a cheap subscription.

I think I got a deal and paid around 250 bucks

for the Wall Street Journal last year.

You'll get articles from the Wall Street Journal,

but it's curated content.

It's not the entire publication.

So if you still want the business analysis

and some of those other things,

you're gonna have to pay for the paper still.

But yeah, like that's kind of those some of the highlights.

I mean, one of the downsides, of course, is what?

Not as much news as people were expecting, okay?

- Well, it's called Apple News,

but it doesn't seem to have a lot of news.

It seems to be more focused on the magazine side of things,

which for me, I think I'm actually really excited about.

I subscribe to, well, I don't subscribe to a lot

of magazines, I subscribe to Bon Appetit Magazine,

which is included, which is cool.

But there's other magazines that I think I would read,

Backpacker, Cycling Magazines,

different things that I do that I spend a lot of time in and if they're included in a price like

this and then even more importantly it's part of the family plan so if you have a family in iCloud

amongst all your iPhone devices so for instance I can share these with my wife under one subscription

plan that's huge so now it's kind of half price almost per person right. If you look at it just

from the magazine point of view if you were to buy subscriptions to all of those magazines offered

it would be over $8,000 a year annual subscription costs.

So I mean, it's clearly a value there, 10 bucks a month,

and you have all this stuff at your disposal.

- So the other thing that I think I'd say about this

that is somewhat interesting is like,

although it's a cool thing and it's nice

that it's integrated into the Apple ecosystem

and that sort of thing,

they're still not doing any kind of expansion

outside of the Apple ecosystem where they are in some areas,

but this one they left very tightly closed

to the Apple ecosystem and their subscription model, right?

So you can't get Apple news on Windows, for instance.

- No, you can't, and there's not an Apple news app

for Windows, it's, yeah, you're right.

You need the iPhone, iPad, yeah.

- But for some of these other things,

they're moving off their own platform.

They're actually opening the walled garden some.

- Yeah, that's true.

I think I'm really happy that they've done this.

I think this is a step in the right direction.

I understand where you're coming from.

There's probably more they can do.

I think there's more they will do.

This is brand new, by the way, too.

So I think you're going to see more of this happen.

The question for me is going to be how the publishers find

this three months down the road.

Because right now, you're telling all these guys, hey,

we'll give you $9.99 a month.

But it's really going to be-- your payouts

to be based on how popular the article is, how many downloads you get, and that sort

of thing.

So if it's hot, you might get a nice paycheck, and if it's not, well, too bad.


And yeah, I suppose they're all going in for the publicity and the ability to get their

stuff and their content in front of more eyes is going to be the big draw there.

The biggest problem I have with the whole Apple News Plus section of it is this isn't

really new.

Like, there's other services that did the magazine subscription all under one umbrella.

Like that's been done. The thing that hasn't been done is including that with a news provider or a bunch of news content like

newspapers and that sort of thing. So that's somewhat new and somewhat novel.

But again, it's pretty limited in terms of what news content that they are allowing you access to.

Maybe that'll change over time. But at the current time, I guess I was less than

overwhelmed with this particular announcement. I think it's cool. I think it's a good start, but I

I wasn't that excited by it.

- Well, I think it's great because I do get enough

subscriptions that it makes it worth the price for me,

but I agree with you too that if they would extend this out

to multiple news publishers and publications,

like that would be a whole different deal.

If I could pay a flat monthly fee and get past the paywall

on New York Times and the full Wall Street Journal

and some of these other things, that'd be really cool.

'Cause the way that it works right now is that you get

some bullshit article that they share with you, but then you get like three free articles

and then you got to pay.

And if you want to sign up, you got to pay for that one and it's separate from the other


So I do like that they streamlined that at least with the magazines and try to bring

in a little bit of news.

My suspicion is that it was a harder sell for the news folks than it was for the magazines.

And so they said, fine, like we're willing to open it up here, but then the news is going

to take a little more time.

Now, maybe the revenue model pays out.

There was something like 500 million downloads on the app store.

I mean, there's an insane amount of downloads on the app store on an annual basis now.

I think that's annually.

Better check that.

But there might be enough there.

If you have enough people paying $10 a month, then you could have these guys making millions

of dollars and it wouldn't be a big deal.

Well, and I think to your point is a smart idea, especially for the newspapers that are

struggling to begin with anyway. You know, you're going to now have the ability for them

to deliver directly to a content device rather than having to... You know, you had this problem

even. Like you were ordering the paper and three days out of the week it wouldn't show

up at all or maybe it'd show up late or whatever the case might be. So now you have the paper

being delivered directly to your device so you don't have to worry about the distribution

system that's coming to you without any question. It's going to be there every morning.

Yeah, I'm a paper person I like having the physical copy, but you know, it's a pain in the ass too

So for me to be able to have access to all that stuff on my iPad and if you'll see it every morning enough to worry about

What time it is I know that I can get it reliably every day

Read all the articles I want to read like that to me is a huge perk and it's something I like to see them

branch into a little bit more I

Had a thought about that and I lost it too so I was thinking about the number of subscribers and downloads

It'll come back to me later, but

Anyway, I think though while you're thinking about that

I think the thing too that is big is the subscription piece of it and we'll talk about this more later because there's a couple of people that aren't

participating in some other subscription services that they're offering

but I think just the ability to

You know punch a button and say like yes subscribe me like that

Interaction that transaction is so much more easy to do for people for whatever reason then mailing a check or

Whatever subscribing to a physical copy of the paper. It's it's such an easy transaction

It's made so simple that I think they will pick up more subscribers and people will probably leave them till linger and and get

Rid of all these different pricing models like standardized the pricing model

Figure out what's appropriate and then just have its point and click and go that was that was going to be my other point was


one of the other barriers I think to that becoming more of a possibility for news is that the

The rev share on this is just terrible.

Apple wants half.

I think for app developers, it was like what?

20% was their share.

I think 80 cents on the dollar went to the developer.

It's probably changed since then.

But I think at one point it was something like that.

But when I heard this, I thought, man, 50 cents on the dollar

is going to Apple for being the broker, if you will,

and providing the service.

Seems a big fucking greedy to me.

But not all they're doing, they're providing the framework and they're providing the people.

It's a huge part of it, but it's going to be a hard sell for a lot of these guys that

need, you know, these, a lot of these news organizations already are on, you know, a

fine line.

Like they just have a very tight budget and can't really afford to lose that much money.

It's a little disappointing when you start to think about it from the standpoint of like,

news is kind of a dying industry, right?

Or at least it's getting kind of perverted by- Like print news or what?

The local news, the local newspapers, they're dying. They're not existing anymore.

Wall Street Journal is fine. Big papers are fine, but the local independent papers are

dying because there's just not any money to be made there anymore. It's kind of

unfortunate and I would even say shame on Apple for taking that big of a cut

from somebody who's already struggling. The thing that Apple is

providing is like a gross distribution network. You're giving them a ton

more eyes but for the small independent paper the the small local entity they

can't compete with like they can't take a 50% cut. Yeah they're getting squeezed

out. And that's horrible in this time of when you need more independent news and

independent content being generated by non you know global scale news outlets

Like that's pretty unfortunate, I think.

Agreed. Yeah, agreed, man.

I, uh, yeah.

Oops, we're getting something coming in over here.

This is, um, I think this is David.

I'm going to move along.

I'm going to talk about, we'll see what's going on here, but I'm going to

come back to that in a minute and I'm going to move on to the next one.

So we've got, there were really like four main items that were

subscriptions that came out.

Yes, we do. Yeah, we do, David. If that's you.

I think that's bully.

Oh, is it? Oh, shit.

I don't know why I was getting confused.

Yeah, we take live questions.

If you have live questions, you can

hit us up on the Slack channel.

They have to be reasonable questions that we want to answer.

Yeah, well, there you go. Move on. Move on.

So the second service that came out was Apple Card.

So yeah, good chat on Apple News, News Plus,

Magazine Plus, if you will, Kyle, but Apple is now becoming a bank, too.

So they have unveiled the Apple Card.

Now this service is not available.

I should say Apple News Plus was made available day of release.

And so that's already out there.

You have to upgrade to iOS 12.2.

And then the news app will automatically

be updated to the latest version when you restart.

The Apple Card is a new credit card

that Apple's really trying to take a lot of the pain,

I guess, if you will, out of the traditional credit card

experience. So if you have the Bank of America or whatever card, you got the app and it's

maybe a little clunky and not very easy to see and the terms aren't very easy to understand

and there's hidden fees. This is an attempt to simplify that process quite a bit.

So the first feature of the card is this daily cash. So instead of getting cash rewards that

show up on a monthly basis, daily cash shows up on a daily basis. Imagine that. So if you're

If you're using your phone through Apple Pay, all purchases are eligible for 2% back.

And if you're buying things at the Apple Store on Apple products, you'll get 3% back.

If you use the physical card, you'll get 1% back.

But whatever you accrue, we'll show up on your statement the next day.

And I think if I'm not mistaken, it returns the cash to you via Apple Pay account, right?

I wasn't too clear on that because it sounds very similar to the Apple Pay cash thing.

There's like somebody was saying they're going to merge those ideas because it sounds like

they're both two different concepts, but yes.

Yeah. So I think this is kind of interesting. I'm curious as to where they want to push this

going forward because I'm not sure why there's any market for them to get into the credit card

area other than I definitely understand and love their idea of no credit card numbers or anything

like that etched onto the front of the card, the physical card, for security purposes, right?

Nobody can take a picture of that or skim it or whatever the case might be. So I think that's

very valuable and I think that's a very good move and I think other credit card companies are starting

to move that way anyway. But I'm curious as to what they're thinking is here and why they're

trying to move this direction and what this is going to get them aside from obviously some

Interest accruing and that sort of thing. Oh a lot of fucking money. I would think I would think that's the case so they've eliminated


Late fees well fees of any kind so there are no annual fees no late fees

They do a crew interest if you don't pay on the card at the end of the month

If you don't pay the balance off in full then you will accrue interest as you do for any other credit card

But they've eliminated fees. You don't have to pay a minimum at the end


And the interface is pretty spiffy.

I'll say that.

They've done a really nice job within wallet.

You can go in and see your transactions

in a very clean, easy-looking display.

It'll categorize for you.

They want to try to help you get a better understanding

of your financial footprint so you can see what you're spending

and where your money is going.

And then also, too, to decide what you're

going to pay at the end of the month.

If I'm only going to pay $50, then they'll say, hey, look,

it's going to be this much interest.

It'll take you this long to pay it off.

Whereas if you give us $100, maybe that

backs down in half or saves you X amount of dollars in interest.

But this is backed by another major bank,

like Barclays or something like that,

that's backing the card itself.

So this is a master card from Goldman Sachs.

Goldman Sachs, okay.

So even then, Goldman Sachs is getting a cut

somewhere in there, right?

So Apple's not getting that entire amount of interest.

So still, I don't really understand

totally what's going on here that is beneficial to them,

other than maybe they can somehow cut out some middlemen

using the Apple Pay system?

I don't know.

- I'm sure a pencil's out.

I'm sure if you look at it through there,

especially at a global, I mean this is just,

as far as I know, this is just US.

But it's the start.

I imagine if you could get this globally,

I think that could be very lucrative for them.

I mean, this could be a lot of money in interest.

I mean, you and I both know like the amount of people,

the percentage of people that pay off their balance in full.

That's a minority.

I mean, there's way more people

are just leveraging credit and being charged interest, right?

So do you plan on getting this card?

I thought about it.

I don't need a card.

And I'm pretty loyal to the Alaska Visa just because I like mileage runs, dude.

Yeah, I'm the same way.

I'm pretty stuck on my Delta Amix card, so chances are I don't really have any need or

use for this.

I think it's interesting, but there's a pretty low percentage chance that I would ever subscribe

or get this particular card.

So again, here I wasn't overwhelmed.

Like I think it was a cool product.

It was a flashy looking card.

I guess if you want to call it that.

But here again, I really wasn't too overwhelmed

with the event and the announcement.

- There are people that will jump on it.

They did promote that it's an easy approval process.

I don't know that it's how different it is

from a traditional credit card

'cause it's still going through MasterCard,

still going through Goldman Sachs.

So maybe they have certain data points.

You don't have to enter in a full application.

They said it's as easy as like point click

and then three minutes have a decision.

There are some people I think that'll be drawn towards

the fact that the physical card is made out

of fucking titanium.

- Yep.

- And it's laser etched.

So you'll have your name and the little Apple logo

and you can throw that down at the restaurant

and look pretty baller in your titanium Apple card.

- I did see some complaints already however

that Apple was pimping that this is a pretty low interest

credit card, which really isn't the case.

Like I think it's what was a 13% up to 24 or 26,

depending upon your credit worthiness.

- Okay.

- Like I don't, that's not really a very good APR.

- That's pretty standard though.

Even great cards like you're gonna have,

I've never seen anything less than 13%.

- Hey, my BECU credit card is fantastic, like 4%.

- Bullshit.

- It's pretty good, I'd have to look it up,

but it's very low.

- Okay, well BECU is a credit union,

they might do a little better.

I'm just saying like among the big ones,

I've never seen anything like the Alaska cards.

I have great credit.

I have fantastic credit and I still have a shitty APR.

- Yeah, the big boys like that,

like the really large cards, I think you're always gonna,

that's gonna be pretty standard.

I would agree with you.

- Yeah, we have a new subscriber on the Slack.

Is that, I don't have a wife, wife number one join.

So I'm guessing that that must be Christina.

- Well, so funny story and we're gonna have to table

the Apple Talk here for a moment.

So if you look in my text messages.

- Yes.

- In Apple messages, you can,

did you know you can do group message, of course,

but did you know that you can put titles

to the group name?

Did you know that?

- Well, I'm not sure if I knew that.

- Yeah, so if you have a group thread,

you can at the top, if you click the name

or the people that are in it, you can title it.

So in mine, I have one that's called the Wives Club.

- Oh, I think I've heard about the Wives Club, dude.

The question is--

Who's a member? That's the question, right?

So I know who the member is.

The members are.

I'm just wondering who thinks they're number one.

Yeah. Boy, I wonder.

This could be, I thought it was Christina.

It could be the rainmaker in the skies.

That'd be my assumption for sure, yeah.

Rain, you son of a bitch.

Welcome rain to the wives club number one.

You should have been on here rain.

You should have been our guest today.

We're gonna have to have lunch with you again next week

to figure that out.

We should move along.

got a couple more Apple services to cover. Yeah. Yeah, let's move on. Apple Arcade.

Apple Arcade. You know, this one, here's a, there were a couple of good things that came

out of this whole presentation. One was being security at the forefront. They really wanted

to reinforce the idea that security was not going to be compromised, that we were not

going to share your information. Apple's not going to know what you do, where you go, what

you spend your money on, yada, yada, yada. And so for each of these products, they made

that point. And also to the tracking of your data, they wouldn't do any of that without

your consent. So that came out with Arcade as well. Arcade is their, well, what do you

want to call it? It's kind of their gaming platform, if you will. It's not a hardware

device. It works on all hardware devices. So if you have an Apple TV, if you have an

an iOS device, you can be a subscriber to Apple Arcade.

Maybe that's where the 500 million stat came from.

They were talking about how many downloads

they got with games.

I mean, they have the largest gaming platform

in the world already through apps.

And so Arcade is really becoming a feature of apps.

The other interesting statistic there was that free games

were made way more revenue than games that came at a cost.

So the idea here is like, hey, one price per month,

access to all the games, and it'll

work on all your devices.

I think that's a cool idea.

And it's being talked-- we even talked about this kind of

in show 28, right?

Google Stadia or whatever it's called.


Was a kind of similar, semi-similar idea, I guess.

The thing that I think here is like, I guess I'm not

a big mobile game player.

So again, here, not a sexy thing for me,

because I generally don't play a lot of mobile games.

The idea is cool, I think it's probably gonna be

well executed and they will make a ton of revenue

off of it, I agree with you.

But for me, I keep saying this, again,

wasn't like a big sexy reveal, I was just kinda like,

meh, I'm not that excited about this,

but I think it could be a very big deal.

And I think bringing it to all the platforms,

Apple TV, iPad, iPhone, all the things,

and be able to move your game from place to place to place,

just like these other services we talked about

is a very valuable thing for people.

- That's going to be a selling point for sure, right?

You can play a little bit on your phone,

go to the TV and pick up where you left off.

That's kind of a unique selling proposition.

I don't think we've seen that out there yet

with these other things.

I mean, we're getting there.

Stadia will get there too, I'm sure,

because how quickly they can render,

because it's in the cloud

and they have that processing power,

it's not gonna take any effort to pick up where you left off.

- Right.

Well, apparently I fucked up

and wife number one is indeed wife number one.

Oh, you fucked that up, Bill.

Oh, buddy.

It's been a bad week for you, man.

You wreck the damn car.

You get wifey confused.


Sorry, man.

Well, things can only get better from here.


And here you go.

BCU APR rate is 9.15.

So that's pretty damn good.

So that's pretty damn good.

Below 10%, yeah.


That's very good.

Her APR is-- I don't know where yours is anymore.

I think I've got the better credit score right now.

just to throw that out there.

She might be fixing that right now for your little mistake.

Very cool.

So yeah, Apple Arcade was--

the other thing I'll say about this,

it seemed very premature, the announcement.

I know that there's a lot of build up,

and there was already speculation that, hey,

they got to find something else to pivot off of,

because hardware is on the decline.

This felt very rushed.

Like, let's put this out there now.

Most of these products aren't available.

These services aren't available until summer, fall,

sometime later in 2019.

And I thought that was disappointing too,

because the momentum behind them

would have been a lot stronger if they could have said,

hey, starting next week, you can download this

and be ready to roll.

- You're not a game player, right, on mobile?

I don't ever see you really playing much games.

- I'm not a game player, period, yeah, I really know.

- Yeah, so probably not a big sexy release

in this one for you either.

- I would have tried it.

I mean, I might still try it at some point.

the idea that I wouldn't have to buy a physical device

and try some things.

Because I've played--

I do enjoy some games.

Well, maybe if they have the erotic photo hunt.

That would be cool.

If they had erotic photo hunt on the Apple Arcade platform,

then you're damn well better believe

I'm going to pay that subscription price right there.

Let's do a little research and Google that.

Let me Google that while you move on to the next item

of the list.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm going to move on.

So the last big announcement was, of course, around Apple TV.

And so as you know, there's been some rumors out there

for a while now that Apple was going to get into the cable television space.

I mean, right now you can download ABC, NBC, all these apps, and you can link it up to

your cable provider, or you can go to HBO and get an HBO Now subscription and link

that up in Apple TV.

Well, the big announcement coming out of the Steve Jobs Theater this week was that you

can now use the Apple TV app to subscribe to any channel you want through the app.

The cool part about this is that you no longer have to go to the store and download the ABC


You just pay for the subscription, whatever it is, and we don't know the pricing yet.

They haven't released a pricing model for this, but you can subscribe to the channels

that you want to watch and then you'll see in the search results and in Siri and all

of that stuff, like all the programming will show up and it's all in app.

So you're not jumping from Apple TV into the respective ESPN app, right?

Or do you even have to have them downloaded,

which I think is a powerful piece.

So like, if you're familiar with like Fire TV Stick

or Fire TV, I guess in general,

like they do a similar thing to this,

but I think you have to have all the apps downloaded

and then the apps can somehow like query each other.

- That's kind of even how Apple TV works now.

If you download Hulu,

then when there's like an open in option

that you can say open in Hulu.

So I think similar, but that goes away.

- But then, yeah.

So the way they did that is they allowed you to then do a search,

but it would search through all the content.

You didn't have to go to the Netflix app and say, oh,

I want to search for this.

Go to the HBO Go app, and I want to search for this.

You could just search generally, and it would give you

a mixed result from all the different platforms.

And this is even a step further than that.

So now there's not an app at all other than the subscription

app, whatever Apple's TV channels app.

And if you don't have it, I assume--

I would imagine they're going to show you the result anyway,

and give you an option to subscribe.

Kind of like we just made a mention of earlier in the show.

Like it's gonna be just a simple like, oh, click, buy.

- Right, now getting back to our earlier topic

of Apple News Plus, this is something

that I would really be excited about

if they came out with on the news side.

Like show me everything but allow me to register it

through Apple and not have to go to New York Times

and sign up and register and pay

or to go to Economist and do the same thing.

Like if I could just point, click and go,

I'd be way more apt to do that in the app.

- I would agree.

And I think you'd get a ton of subscriptions in that way.

Like I said, it's so simple.

It's such an easy process.

Everybody, you would have people that would do it

and then just leave it hanging.

There would be perpetual subscriptions

that would just remain for weeks, years, whatever.

- I think so.

The other exciting piece of the Apple TV channel's

announcement was that Apple TV is becoming an app.

So you're going to see that on Fire TV stick.

and you'll see that on some of the other devices.

They're not working with Netflix on this at all, of course,

but you can get it on other Amazon and Roku devices.

- Well, so Netflix is gonna continue to be an app,

but they're not going to allow subscriptions

through the Apple service.

I believe that's what's the biggest point of contention here

is they don't wanna give Apple a cut

of any subscription signups that they receive.

- You've gotta do it through their website,

through netflix.com as opposed to doing it in app.

because the in-app subscription, Apple gets a cut of that.

And that was, I think it was almost a billion dollars.

It was a big number.

- For Netflix, it'd be huge.

Yeah, I don't blame them at all for that.

They should be able to command much, much better deals.

- Yeah, so there's a little bit of a tug of war

going on over there right now.

But they are, Apple is trying to become a competitor.

A lot of people are asking,

why didn't Apple just buy Netflix?

They've got 200 plus million, billion,

200 plus billion dollars in the bank.

Why not just buy Netflix and be done with it?

But they didn't do that.

So they're a competitor.

They initially budgeted $1 billion to curate their own

content and they had a bunch of celebrities come out on

stage, Jennifer Aniston and Oprah's gonna be doing some

work with them and several others came out at the media

event to talk about Apple TV content.

but they're spending, it sounds like $2 billion

this year on their own content.

- Yeah, so there's good and bad with that, right?

Like now you're fragmenting the content even further.

Right, now you have it on Netflix,

you have it on HBO, you have it on Amazon,

you know, like you're just fragmenting out

the service even further.

- Well, at this point, it's just a race

to see who they can kill off, right?

It's just like, there's so much content,

you can't possibly watch all this shit.

Amazon Prime content, for example,

will be searchable in Apple TV.

But with a subscription.

Yeah, if you're a prime member.


So now you have to have a subscription to Apple.

You have to have a subscription to Amazon.

You have to have a subscription to Netflix and to Disney

and to whomever.

It's becoming the cable monopoly thing all over again,

but just with a different online system,

like recreating the same beast, which is kind of unfortunate.

Even worse, because they all have great people

doing great content.

It's not even like cable where it was mostly shit

and then a few good things.

This I feel like is the opposite problem

where you've got so many massive budgets

and so many big names.

I mean, you just can't, you couldn't in a lifetime

watch all the shit you wanna watch.

And so I think there's this massive expansion.

There's huge budgets and then at some point

it's gonna contract and there'll be a few people on top.

Who's left after that shit storm we'll find out.

Yeah. I think the thing to me that was the most interesting about this announcement,

this particular one, and by the way,

this is the one that I was probably the most excited about of any of them,

is that this was like a peak into Apple like opening up their garden.

Like for years and years, decades,

Apple has been a Mac or an Apple only ecosystem.

Like only its devices can talk to its different things.

And suddenly now they're publishing apps onto other platforms,

which the only time they've ever done that

that I can think of in history is iTunes and Safari

on the Windows platform, yeah.

And those iTunes, I think, still exist,

but they've pulled Safari.

So there's really no, there's hardly any record

of any of this kind of behavior from them.

So like the fact that they're kind of trying

to make their system more open in some way

is kind of a huge deal.

And that was the thing that I think excited me more

than anything about any of this announcement

was the fact that they're putting it on the Fire Stick

and I think Roku as well, right?

- And Roku as well, that's right, yeah.

So they're ready to compete,

and I think that there's been a desire to do so

for a long time.

There was an interview with Steve Jobs

about 10 years ago talking about this,

and they just couldn't crack that nut yet.

I know they had been working with other direct TV

and some of these guys that try to figure out ways

to work together, and it just always fell through.

This seems like the closest they've gotten

to successfully being able to bring cable content

and major networks on to the platform.

And I'm sure that they had to get some additional leverage

and said, look, maybe it's not out of our desire to do so,

but out of necessity that we have to open it up

a little bit more to try to get a broader reach.

I don't know.

- Did they announce air power at this event?

- I didn't hear any of my air power.

- That's delayed forever, right?

never coming out. Yeah, I had a missed part of it. So I'm I

can't speak definitively on they didn't they didn't announce it.

I was just I was baiting you on that one. You son of a bitch, I

listened to everything else. What I do know is that if you look

at the air, what's interesting though, about that, so they

didn't announce it. Well, sorry, they've announced it what a

year ago, right, that it was coming and then they've had

problems and problems and problems and it's never come out.

Yeah. Yeah. So the new AirPods that ship with the charging case.


They have a picture of it.

It's out.

There's an outline of it, like the of the actual case sitting on an air power dock.

An artist rendering.

Yeah, exactly.

So like people are kind of like, ooh, is this just going to come out kind of magically soon?

Because we already have it now like being shown in product demonstration or on product documentation,

product packaging, whatever you want to say.

So yeah, it'll be interesting to see.

That's another product that I'm just kind of like, meh.

I have key chargers all over the house. Like why do I need this thing? That's probably gonna be $200. Sure. It'll be

something already it's already out there and

What's their take gonna be on it? It's why I was charging well. It's wide. That's the that's the thing right?

It's like double double wide what you would think of a typical or like round or whatever key charger, but

Yeah, I don't I don't understand why they need to get into that space. Maybe that's why it's a delayed indefinitely

Well, it wasn't I'm not surprised it didn't come out there because this was a services focus

Presentation so you know the hardware could be coming and they just didn't want to talk about it here

WWDC is coming. I believe yeah, there's just yet another Apple event that more cool shit can come out of

Apple shares did not respond

To this news very favorably. I'll say that

I mean they were down the day of looks like today. They're doing

and up a little bit like one day, one week.

They've been down on the week.

So nothing, they've been pretty flat

since the announcement of the services.

I think that remains to be seen.

I do think it's going to carry them

because there's only so much more money

it can make on these damn phones,

but that remains to be seen.

When you say that you're gonna come out this fall

with Apple Arcade and TV channels,

sometime later this year and you don't have a price behind it.

It's kind of hard to have a reaction to that,

a positive one anyway.

- Right.

I think the thing that we haven't talked about too,

that that was an important part of all of these

different announcements is their emphasis

on privacy and security.

So none of these services that they've announced

that they're going to continue,

like of course they're gonna keep information,

but it's all gonna be anonymized I'm sure,

so there's really no tracking.

- Yeah, they will not know what your purchases are,

They will not know what you watch, what games you play.

They were talking about suggestions.

They had a unique way of making suggestions

about what to read for the news.

It was very generic.

It wasn't based on your previous reading history

or anything like that.

So they're trying to take advantage of that.

I think this whole Facebook moment and say look,

like we have a different approach where we don't wanna know,

We don't need to know and we can still tailor it to an audience that give you what you want

to see without having to have all your data.

And Apple's always been very good about that.

When you, even with their hardware and all the different devices like the biometric stuff,

they always have the secure enclave and this kind of thing that nobody else can access.

No software can access it.

Only Apple's hardware and their own software can access those things.

They've always been very good about protecting your security, protecting your identity, and

doing those types of things.

I think this goes right along hand-in-hand with that.

No different part for the course.

I think, good job, Apple.

I think so too.

It kind of goes along with this across all the product lines, service lines anyway.

The family sharing, you mentioned it briefly in the beginning.

But yeah, all of these things, these subscription prices, they're all for the family.

I think that's pretty exciting too.

not going to spend 50 bucks a month on content.

So good stuff there as well.

And I think that brings us what to the end of the hour here

at KJ, pretty much.

Yeah, I think we took up the whole time with Apple News.

So I hope you like Apple products as much as we do.

I like my Apple products.

Yeah, me too.

Need to buy some new ones.

Wife number one, I have a laptop request.

Get the damn car fixed first, Kyle.

Yeah, true.

There's a fair point there.

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