48 min read

30: Travel Tips and Packing Cubes

This week we discuss Tesla Mobile Service experience, traveling with packing cubes, merino wool and travel laundry products.
30: Travel Tips and Packing Cubes

This week is our 30th episode! We go a bit all over the board starting out with a look back at our first 30 episodes. We discuss Apple's recently canceled AirPower mat and delve into Kyle's recent Tesla Mobile Service experience. The primary topic of the episode focuses on traveling with packing cubes, merino wool, and travel laundry products. We round out the show with a reoccurring segment about what we have been watching.

Show Notes

Full Transcript


And we're live with episode number 30 of the Coffee and Code Cast,

live from Seattle's Pioneer Square District.

This is the Coffee and Code Cast, a weekly live stream tech podcast

where we talk about neither coffee or code.

I'm Kyle Johnson.

And I'm Mike Sheehan.

That's a real, that's a real bottle opener there.

That's no sound effect.

I got a sound effect for you.

Oh, that one's so quiet.

It's so quiet.

This is up close and personal.

This is episode number 30.

Oh my God, man.

Number 30.

Can you believe it?

I think we've wrapped up ten of those in the past, what, two months?

Month and a half, couple months?

Well done.


It's fun to be here to celebrate.

We're going to look back a little bit on the last 30 episodes and where we started out,

where we came from and where we are now today and maybe a little sneak peek into what we

want to do going forward.

Other than that, I don't know, it's going to be kind of a typical show.

We'll cover some news and current events and some, you know, what the fuck we feel like,

because it's our 30th show.

So I think we should talk about it or whatever the hell we want to for a little bit.

Yeah, I think we just wanted to start out the episode talking a little bit about

where we started because this was started what about a year and a half ago and we

just wanted to start talking publicly, making, uh, as I stumble over my words here,

making better conversation, learn how to speak better in public more clearly,


It right.

It was a personal growth project more than it was anything else.

I don't think we were looking for listeners or really even knew how long it would go on.

We just thought we would give it a try.

And I think you even pitched it to me when I came back to Seattle to visit from San Francisco.

At one point you said, you know, let's just try it out and see what happens.

And you know, if you don't want to do it, we don't want to do it.

We'll just scrap it, but we'll put a couple of things out there and give it a try.

Yeah, it was just a random, what do you think about doing a podcast?


I think you were just like, oh, hell is this guy talking?

I was a little nervous about that.

You know what?


Put shit online?

I was like, well, you know, we can just kind of wrap

about some stuff, talk about technology stuff,

keeping contact was the main thing

because you're moving to San Francisco.

So yeah, it was something that we just kind of whipped

together, we had some cheap microphones that we used,

cheap equipment, we made the best we could make it,

but looking back, there's some pretty bad,

pretty bad audio quality that we got going at the beginning.

It was pretty damn rough.

The first episode, it was October 25th, 2017.

Is that when I was?


Yep, about 18 months ago.

November, December, January, February, March, April.

Yeah, about 18 months ago.

Not quite.

And, well, what the hell?

It'd be fun to kind of go back and play a little bit, huh?

Let's relive a quick segment here.

What should I do?

I'll pop this on real quick.

This is the Mic Check episode.

This is episode zero, really.

I guess this is episode--

Yeah, didn't have a number, really.

But it was the Mic Check.

Let's tune in here.

So I'll just take these two tracks and make some kind of like what I just did and we'll

see what it sounds like.

Oh god, it's bad.

That sounds awful.

Well, I have nervous.

I have to listen to it.

You know, like I used to think that too, I guess I still don't necessarily like to hear

myself, but it doesn't bother me as much.

I still don't like to hear myself.

I feel like he kind of get over that pretty quick.



That should be good.

After the first time or two.

- It's like I'm in a tunnel.

- He's still down like you're in a tunnel sometimes.

- Yeah, gotta talk slow and think about what you're saying

instead of just being a, and a.

- Per.

- Yeah, right.

- There was a guy doing this webcast.

- That's enough of that.

Can we delete that one off of there?

- Yeah, right, that's horrible.

- There's gotta be some point in time

where we can just sit, the moratorium on

storing these things online passes

and we can just start purging old episodes.

Maybe, maybe, I mean, the way we're moving on.

What do we say?

12 episodes and--

Well, yeah, I think that we started doing this weekly thing

sometime in January.

Let's look back here, 22, 21, 20.

We had a gap.

So 20 was in October.

So we are 20th a year later about, right?

Did nothing until December.

Took some time off.

And then that was December 7th.

And then the 22nd one was January 26th.

So we did two episodes from, three episodes from October 9th to January 26th.

And then starting Valentine's Day, how cute.

Oh, I didn't know this.

Valentine's Day was when we talked to the erotic photo hunt.

Of course we did.

How significant.


It's like a running bit now, the erotic photo hunt.


I love it.

So that's when it was.

We started on Valentine's Day.

And then since then we've hit a streak of seven in a row.

Yeah, we've been on it.

And the cool thing about this is that the listenership

is going up.

We can see that through statistics.

We know people are there.

So people are--

People be tuning in.

Yeah, exactly.

So here we are with our big radio voices.

Right, yeah, exactly.

I could do my stretch the old vocals there.

And you got to keep projecting forward.

I've heard some complaints.

Yeah, do I turn too much?

I kind of--

No, you start off strong and then you can.

Oh, I was like, oh, that was really good.

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Sorry about that.

It's all our listeners in Iowa.

There you go.

Yeah, very good.

Well, I think it's fun to look back and see

where we came from because we have grown a bit in those last 18


And we're having a lot more fun with it now, I think.

And we've got a direction that we're taking it.

And it's a lot more natural.

We have a pretty clear format.

Whereas before it was kind of a lot of us just jibber jabbering about whatever we were dealing with at the time,

which we still do, but I think we kind of try and keep it in the context of tech news and/or business, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Try to be topical about it, and we've been doing a lot of work.

This is maybe part of the future, but putting a lot of work into our guest format that we want to have on future episodes,

have a list of guests we want to have on, and starting to develop some questions that we want to ask.

So we're trying to make it a little more interesting than just the two of us.

Still get the great banter between the two of us,

but then sprinkle in a little guest knowledge in the middle there.

Yeah, exactly. So I think we have already a number of guests that we've talked about

that we think would be interesting.

We just got to kind of get those in the queue,

get them, get them ready to go and let you guys know when they're going to happen.

Get them scheduled and get them committed. Like you got to cuff them.

There is that you got to cuff them because you got people like Rain that, uh,

Just get a little nervous behind the microphone sometimes.

Yeah, for such a outspoken guy.

That's how I felt about it.

I said, yeah, for a guy who has so much to say,

we give him an opportunity to say it

in front of our live audience and--


Clams up.

Then he kind of clams up.

That's okay.

We love rain, it's fine.

We'll get him on here at some point,

but we don't know when that'll happen.

Well, cheers buddy to 30.

Here's 30 more.

Boom. 30 more.

Wow, we gotta come back to episode 60.

Hang on, drink break.

Yeah, at episode 60, we'll be returning back to episode 30

and saying, oh my God.

Look how amateur these fuckers were at episode 30,

what were they thinking?

They had those cheap microphones that were only 500 bucks.



I'll tell everybody our secrets.

I hope not, I don't wanna.

Well, by that time, we're gonna have video gear here.

Mike's got really high ambitions for the show, you guys.

Like he wants, he wants video, multiple angle video.

Yes. Yeah.

So the board that we just procured,

that gives you this beautiful sound quality,

that is not gonna be good enough soon.

We're gonna have to upgrade from that because--

I think that board will be fine,

but we're gonna add to it.

Oh, okay.

We're gonna add a video board.

That video mixer will be a separate piece

just for the GoPro cameras or whatever the hell we get.

So the coffee code cast will be looking

for a producer here very soon.

We kind of do.

We do need to have, Bulley didn't wanna do it.

We might have to ask him again, maybe if we're a little more popular and have a few more

subscribers, Joseph will reconsider.


Well, as long as he can filter out the ridiculous crap in the chat room there, then maybe we'd

be all right.



That gets a little busy sometimes.

I see Gomer.

Gomer, pile 89 back on, like three weeks in a row, at least.


Pretty consistent.

That's awesome.

Welcome back.

Oh, that's what, that's the bump in ratings there.

He said, I got a hundred virtual machines operating and listening to the show right now.

got robots listening to our, to our cast.

But yeah, like that, I think that's kind of the vision that I have going forward.

Really, it's become a mission to get better and learn and use other medium and expand.

So bringing guests on, I think is the first priority because there's only so many things

we can talk about. And everybody, a lot of the successful ones, they have, oh, did that come

in that way. If you feel a dinger. Sorry about the ding there. We use the iPad to

play back episode one and I'm getting text messages on there right now. Sorry

about that. Some technical difficulties work through there. No, what I was trying

to say is that this has been more now that we've gotten comfortable with this

whole process and we've gotten some new equipment and we know how to record a

little bit better than we did before. It's about what can we do next and I

I think YouTube, I love YouTube, I'm on there all the damn time and I watch a lot of people

on YouTube and subscribe and you know, Joe Rogan Experience, huge massive following,

massive massive following, but they have a very simple setup.

I think they have a couple camera angles and you can watch it live there or you can listen

to the podcast later, it's like three and a half hours long.

But that's where I want to go next.

I want to get some equipment and hear some video equipment and make it more of a studio,

even find a studio space. I don't know. There's talk of maybe the company having a dedicated

space upstairs later on for other purposes. But it'd be cool to have our own spot and

then people could see us on YouTube and also listen in their cars or while they're traveling

on the bus or whatever.

I was going to bring up the Joe Rogan experience because we have a lot of the same gear or

very similar gear to what he has. Obviously his studio looks very nice because they are

recording, you know via video and multiple angles and all that sort of thing. They also have a producer, but

biggest problem I see here and and I think it was called out by one of our managers is that

We have faces for radio. Oh

That was I think that was geared towards me and it was fucking Brad said that I'm so hurt

I'm so hurt. Well, I mean there may be truth in that there might be truth to that. I don't know he did apologize

I tell you later on I got an email from him. He was on the sounder going home

he takes the sounder down south to get home and he

He sent me an email and he goes Mike. I just want you to know that I was teasing

you're a very handsome young man and

I hope your feelings weren't hurt you do great work for us to yeah

He's Brad's very he's got a sensitive side like that too. It was very sweet of him - sweet

Yeah, I don't know if I believe that I

Have you know what he said but whatever no he's very very kind man that way good boss. Yeah boss to have

Well right on man. Well, should we move on to a quick bit of follow-up here? Wow, let's do it

Yeah, do it. Well, we've talked a number of times here on the show about Apple. We talk a lot about Apple

Well, we have almost all their products over here. So I'm sitting on this table

In front of us right now before our eyes. Yeah, so we've talked a number of times about Apple airpower

I don't think we've talked about it in great detail, but we've kind of mentioned it in passing

Apple Air Power is the

Kind of chi charging or wireless charging Matt that they announced how long ago was that year and a half?

At least right the rumor mill has been churning on this thing forever and then there started

Images started to appear probably about that time ago of what it could look like or what it might look like and then Apple eventually

Had their own marketing materials right showing this product what it could look like well, and it even showed up

it's on the back of the Apple AirPod 2. So when you buy the product itself on

the packaging, if you flip it over and look at it underneath the actual AirPod

case, because the new Air Pods are wireless charging, so the new AirPod

case underneath there, there is a wireless AirPower mat charging the device,

or seemingly charging the device. But it's funny because immediately after

releasing that product, they scrubbed this particular product, the AirPower

Matt due to what Apple considers, what did they say? Like doesn't meet their

standards. Physics. Physics. Yeah, that was their response was that we couldn't

get a product that met all of our requirements for quality. And there was a

lot of issues with the physics. Frankly, that was the real underlying

issue. Heat, right, is the main issue. So to be able to charge multiple devices on this

mat, you're going to generate a lot of heat, probably with exceeding safe levels for your

phone. So I don't know that the damn thing was catching on fire necessarily, but it probably

was just causing more heat than would be within the accepted range of what an iPhone should

be or.

Or could be damaging the mat itself potentially, right? Like the components, internal components

of the mat.

That's right.


they couldn't get the components to work

within the threshold they wanted them to

and just gave up on it.

I also think too, we talked about this before,

that there's other competitors out there,

maybe without, I don't know anybody that does the mat

quite like this with multiple devices.

Do you know if that's out there somewhere?

- There is, I know there's definitely products

that are available that have like multiple charging spaces,

but not like one large mat that does multiple devices,

I guess.

So they'd probably have multiple cables coming out the back

or something like that to charge each specific device.

Like to give you an example,

I know there's like a bunch of like these nightstand devices

that you can get that are really beautiful wood, whatever.

And then you can put your Apple watch around

some little peg that has a built-in charger to it.

And then you can lay your phone on the other half of it.

So I'm sure there's probably multiple cables coming out

of the back of that to charge both devices independently.

- Makes sense.

But it's a different cut.

It's not like this where just one big coil

that you can toss it on.

- Exactly, right.

- Yeah, big difference.

So the big thing I think here is like Apple, of course,

in traditional Apple style can pretty much charge

whatever premium it is that they want

because people will buy it 'cause it's Apple, right?

This is how Apple operates with everything.

Their laptops are great.

People buy them, their products are,

they are made very well and people pay for the quality

and the ease of use.

But in this case, I don't think there's a really

that much difference.

So like there's no clear ease of use benefit

to the AirPower mat.

Chee chargers that are out there

do exactly the same thing.

So personally, I don't know that I believe in their reasons

that they outlined here.

I just feel like there isn't a market for that product.

And I don't really feel like there ever was.

- I gotta tell you something.

This is an idea that I've thought about before.

Maybe we should jump on this before it happens,

or maybe it's already out there.

But when it comes to the wireless charging,

I would love to see my monitor's base stand

have built-in charging.

'Cause I always throw my shit on the base of the monitor.

Yeah, on the foot, if you will, of the monitor.

Yeah, it makes a good sense.

If you're not mounting it up on a bracket or something

and you're using a stand that comes with the product,

it's connected to the back of the monitor.

And there's USB a lot of times built into the monitor.

Why not have a little key charging station?

What do you call it?



A little chi card charging.

It's QI, but it's pronounced chi.


So that would be fucking slick, man.

If we could have that.

Did you see that?

You son of a bitch.

Gomer, when we were talking about not having faces for video.

Is that what that's dedicated to?

This is a picture of Chunk from--

No, Sloth.

Oh, is it?

From the Goonies, yeah.

Oh, shit, I'm OK.

I shouldn't speak to this.

Maybe that beer is hitting me a little too soon.


It's really-- we should re-record that sound.

That is a nice crisp, bear drinking,

bear cracking sound right there.

So yeah, I think it's interesting that they decided,

hey, make this product in the first place.

I don't really know that there was ever

really a great market for that.

But to your point, I think the foot idea,

that's a great idea.

You should patent that.

Patented and sell it to LG for a million dollars.

It'd be even better if like the monitor itself

could provide the power to the foot,

so you don't need an additional power supply.

That's right.

Yeah, that's a great idea.

I'm sure it probably already exists.

Somebody's already beat you to that.

Somebody probably has.

It could be a really easy thing.

They're already charging $700 for a curved monitor.

They could just throw a little charger in for $20.

Only $700 for your curved monitors,

'cause you have all the cool stuff.

Yeah, well, it's the price you pay.

If they say you spend half your life in bed,

you might as well have a comfortable mattress.

I spend half my life in front of a goddamn computer screen,

so better look good.

How's that satchel bag going?

That I don't use as much.

That was one expense that was maybe more on the frivolous end.

I'm not wearing a sport coat because I'm not traveling up

here every two weeks now, looking like a business executive.

So it's alive and well in my closet,

and it's doing fine over there.

And it's got a laptop in it that's worth about $2,500,

which I haven't used in about 18 months either.

So maybe that'll be a giveaway.

Let me talk about some other frivolous purchases here.

I just came recently.

I didn't know this was going to be the 30th episode roast over here.

Go ahead.

This isn't your frivolous purchase.

I'm talking about my own.

Oh, you bought some dumb shit.


Let's hear about this.

I bought a Tesla.

So we got to have some Tesla news in here.

Always Jones into Tesla news on here.

We're not even talking about news yet.

Well, this isn't really news.


This is more just my, my vehicle.

I had an experience today with Tesla mobile service, which was interesting.

So they actually have these mobile vans.

Yeah, that when you have a Tesla's no, they're actually Ford's. Oh boy. That's tough

So they have these mobile service vehicles

So the the problem that we've been dealing with is the app itself

You're supposed to be able to use the app on the phone to enter the car via Bluetooth

So as soon as you walk up to the car

The car should unlock know who you are that sort of thing allow you to start driving no

Well, let adjust your seat and shit like that - mm-hmm very cool

Yeah, so that's never worked from the time we bought the car never worked

We can't get the actual app to pair with the car.

>> Yeah.

>> So I had them out.

That was the original intention to have the service appointment today.

So that ended up being just a technical glitch in their system.

They need to make some modification on their server, whatever.

So they didn't fix it today.

It'll be fixed over the next few days.

But the really cool thing that I was impressed with them by is that I kind of listed off a number of other particular issues that we've been having.

So one really common issue with kind of the earlier models of the Model 3 is that the

glove box, once you open it, it doesn't want to like relatch shut or it will like look

like it latches, but then you'll be driving down the road and boop, it'll just pop open.

And so I showed him that and he's like, oh yeah, we, this is an early model problem.

The springs that, that like pin the thing back, you know, so that it doesn't open up.

They're too weak.


defect in the beginning models and he's like no problem we'll fix that he's

like I'll order a part we'll have it here in a week we'll give you a call and

we'll come out and replace it. Interesting so he came out today really just to do

an inspection visually and then he's gonna come back again later - yeah exactly

so he took that I was like oh I've also got this new problem so in the Tesla you

know you have this thing called the front. The front trunk. Yeah exactly the front

trunk so I've shown this recently to somebody and we don't use it very often

Actually, never. I don't think I've ever put anything in it

But I was showing this to a friend of ours recently and I popped the the frunk and it pops

So you see it pop open just like you would the hood of a car

But what's supposed to happen is it's supposed to pop up and then it's supposed to pop up slightly more and that second one doesn't happen and

That second little pop up is supposed to be another latch that releases it completely

So the first one is like if you were driving down the road and it popped up

It would prevent it from like just flying up in your face safety mechanism

Yeah, so apparently what happened is one of their software updates made the one of the motors like actuate

Just a tiny bit too much and it burned it out and they know about this

But they need to replace them so he's gonna replace that as well

So I guess the long story short here is that I was just really impressed with like he came out for one thing and like ended up

Fixing like three other things with with no problem and was just like oh, yeah, no problem

And it's all under warranty, of course.

So there's no charge to you additional to do all this stuff.


And none of them are big deals.

I'm not worried that there's these defects.

Like, I know it's an early car.

I get that there's going to be problems.

So none of these were major glaring problems

that were bothering me.

But they were just like, oh, I guess I could tell them

about this.

And he's like, oh, yeah, we'll get apart.

We'll fix it.

No problem.

Well, you originally were going to have this appointment.

You thought during the live cast.

And so originally, the plan was, well, a couple things.

We were going to go to your place and do it.

when the service was done and then we decided not to do that and you were gonna dial in.

Well, anyway, I was here setting up before you got here and someone came in,

Bully came in and was asking me where you were at. He thought you weren't gonna make it.

And I said, "Oh yeah, it's the mobile truck." You know, he's going over there to,

he's like, "What's going on with the mobile truck?" I said, "Yeah, he's probably going to change his

oil or something." And I thought about it and I was like, "They don't change oil on Tesla. Let's go

oil on a fucking Tesla." There's really no annual maintenance aside from like rotating your tires.

So will they do that too?

That's a great question.

I don't know.

That's probably an add-on additional service.

It's not really a--

I see them being more of a repair type, a light repair,



Yeah, you'd probably have to bring it into the shop for that.


And anybody could do that, I think, probably.


I should have brought more beer.

I'm running out of beer.

Oh, man.

Can we have a pause?

Is there like a pause in the live cast?

I mean, we can put on the background music

that we had on earlier, or another clip.

We could put on like a three minute clip from some other episode that we did before or or if we have some other

Tesla news, I could just continue rambling here for a good five minutes.

I'm sure you have a catalog of news like you could just start reading articles that you

enough time for you to go get a couple beers and I can go sprint upstairs and grab another round.

If we can fit that in, I'll go sprint out of here.

I don't know if that's gonna happen or not.

I'll be better prepared next time.

Very cool, man.

Well, that's nice.

That's interesting.

To see how that works.

I think that's another bonus of having Tesla, right?

Is that you just don't have to bring everything in.

You might have to wait six months

to get your rear bumper fixed,

but they will come out to your house

to take care of some other things.

Well, hey, you win some, you lose some.

You know, what are you gonna do?

She did mention something else

that's really kind of interesting,

that eventually what he envisions

or sees coming down the pike,

he said this maybe is like six months down the road,

but he feels that in the next six months,

you'll be able to use the app,

take a picture of whatever problem

you're having with the car, send it in,

and they'll bring a mobile service truck to you

with the parts already on board so that they can take care

of whatever the problem might be.

So that'd be pretty awesome.

- That would be handy.

- Basically it's like the Uber of repair

is kind of what they're thinking.

- That would be very handy.

That would be another bonus of having that car

because they probably see a lot of the same shit

over and over again, like the trunk latch,

that sort of thing, and the photo would be enough

for a little video clip.

More than enough to diagnose what's going on.

And it's another interesting point too, like we've bragged or I bragged recently on the show about like the software updates making the car a different car kind of over time.

This just shows an example of like, okay, that's great, but it also can cause problems.

Right, like this motor got burned out as a result of a software update, which if it would have continued around the same software, it wouldn't have been an issue.


So interesting kind of dynamic both directions, something that mostly hasn't had to be dealt with with most cars.

Yeah. Yeah. How about that? Well, why don't we move on, huh?


What do we got in the topics for today?

I'm looking here. Oh, this is kind of fun. It's more of a grab bag today, it looks like.

We got a lot of random stuff today, so I hope you're in the mood for just kind of everything.

Yeah, and for a couple of you that are on right now, if you want to talk about something,

type it in the little podcast live on the Slack.

- Yeah, or on Twitter at coffeecodecast.com.

Oh, just that coffeecodecast.

- Or.com, wherever you feel like finding us.

- Wherever you'd like the text to message to nowhere,

go there and do it.

Do you want to hit the first one here or what?

What do you think?

Should we do that or are we going to save that

for another episode?

- Oh, well let's talk about it.

Let's talk about packing cubes.

So my sister hit me up recently.

- Yeah.

I was asking if for travel, if I used packing cubes.

So if you're not familiar with these,

seems like a relatively recent phenomenon.

- I've been doing this for years.

- Yeah.

- This is, by the way, this is gonna parlay

into our tech and travel episode forthcoming here.

I don't know, maybe in a couple weeks.

But I think it was, I saw this

and I thought it was a great topic

because I do love the hell out of these things.

And I'm a pretty minimalist packer too.

I mean, I brought a backpack to Africa for two weeks.

So it can be done.

And if you're gonna do it, this is the way to do it.

And I think it would just be really cool

to talk more generally about tech positions

and tech work and travel.

And I have a lot of interesting ideas about that.

And so we'll expand on the topic soon.

- I like to travel.

- I love traveling.

If I could travel for work,

I would do that 100% of the time.

In fact, I'm always--


- Wouldn't we all?

- It's kind of a joke.

It's kind of a joke around here now

that when I'm pitching the old boss

about needing to go out to Sacramento office

Denver office, he's like, "Oh, you just want to get your fucking mileage run miles and

Mike, shut up and sit down."

This is a slightly off topic, but you use the Tinder, right?

I do not.

Bumble, some dating app.

I have been on dating app, yes.


How many times do you get dating profiles and you're like, "Oh, I don't have a job,

but love to travel."

Oh, yeah, right, right.

On your dime, motherfucker.


Yeah, on your dime.


Would love to travel.


I'm sure I would too.

Well, maybe if they had packing cubes, it would be a little cheaper for them.

I don't know.

You can travel with me if it's a carry-on only.

If you got a check baggage, then I'm

going to have to swipe left on that one.


So packing cubes.

They're pretty cool.

So really, all they are is a compression cube, I guess,

you might say.

So you might take four of these, let's say,

just for the interest of argument.

You might put your pants in one.

You might put your shirts in another.

You might put your socks in underwear in another.

And then maybe you have another one that's just kind of like

your dirty one that you have for later or something.

I don't know, you can use them for a lot of different options, but the advantage to them

is one organization and number two, I think, compressing a lot of the stuff down to a smaller

space in some cases.

Some of them aren't that way, but some of them do help in that respect.

There's a key to utilizing the packing cube though, and if you don't do this, it doesn't

matter what the hell you're using.

It's just not going to be compressed enough.

You got to use the old military rolling technique.

- The rolling technique is good.

- You gotta roll and compress.

That is the optimization strategy.

So, like what you just described is a fuck ton of stuff.

If you actually had one sleeve, like one bag for pants,

and one for shirts, and whatever, like that's a ton of stuff.

Typically what I'll do is, if I'm going on a weekend trip,

like Denver for the weekend, my mom lives out there,

I'll be there for three days or something like that,

I can use one compression bag for everything I'm bringing that whole weekend.

You have the really large square ones, like the one foot by one foot type of?


That's probably about right.

It's probably like an 8x10.

It's like a little larger, maybe a little larger than a sheet of paper in terms of physical

like 2D dimension.

And then it's got probably like a three inch depth to something like that.


I think I have a few of those as well.

And I get them from ebags.

I would recommend ebags.

They're a great company.

the pack that I use is called the Weekender and they have a couple versions of that one.

They've got one that you can just wear as a backpack. Also, you can, it has a convertible

option too, where you can tuck in the straps for your back. You can tuck them into a compartment

and use it as a sling. So if you want to kind of sling it over your shoulder, they have a strap

for that too. They have a version on wheels if you want to have a wheeled version. But I don't do

the wheeled version because I can get a lot more in this bag and it fools all the flight attendants.

They always think this thing, it's the same cubic feet as a carry-on luggage hard case,

but it looks smaller. They always say, "Oh yeah, you can throw this up top and no big deal."

And I never get flagged for gate checking because it looks like it's small enough,

it'll fit in the overhead compartment all the time.

So I think it needs to be stated though, you don't need, say, an e-bag's backpack or luggage device

to use packing cubes. You could even use the e-bag packing cubes in any kind of luggage that

that you have. You could use it any bag. Yeah, of course. I use it in my Osprey

backpack if I was going for a weekend trip. I'll use throw one in there.

And that's what I use as well. So you can almost think of it as a bag within a bag.

Really is what it is. But the bigger thing is like organization because

like I can tell you like my wife when she travels her suit case. Tell me about

this. Her suitcase is just like everything thrown into one big pile. Like

stuff might not be folded, stuff might not be organized by whatever. It's just

kind of like in a big ass pile. And like for me, who's a very OCD type of person,

like I like my stuff to, I need to know where my stuff is, right?

I want to know where my pants are versus my this versus my that.

So this helps me out a lot. Also, like I said earlier, like clean versus dirty.

I usually bring like an extra one, um,

and I leave space in the bag for that.

And I'll put my dirty stuff into that one so that as we travel from place to

place to place, I know what's dirty. I know it's clean. Or, uh,

In some cases, like you, if I'm trying to travel ultra light,

you know, then I'll only have maybe one or two items

in that bag, 'cause I only have a few items with me

in general.

- Do you bring extra shoes?

- I try to bring maybe one pair of, maybe two pairs.

It depends on the trip.

Sometimes flip flops are like the second pair,

which usually I'll just strap to the outside of the bag.

- Yeah. - Yeah.

- Yeah, what I typically do is the bulkiest shit.

So if I'm going somewhere,

Think of a good example. Let's say I'm going to Denver now. It's probably in the 60s. Maybe maybe it's not it could be worse there

I fucking know but like I would bring

my boots and

my jeans and my jacket and I would just wear that all on the plane

So I don't have to pack it and then I would bring like the lighter shoe in the bag and

roll everything else so

Typically that means I can roll two or three t-shirts in one roll together and that kind of comes to about three inches when you compress it or

Two pairs of jeans

So you could get two pairs of jeans in one roll

Or like let's just do this you could get a pair of jeans and

Two shirts in one roll another pair of jeans and two shirts in another roll and now you got four shirts two jeans

I mean fuck that's enough for a long weekend and you could put in your socks and underwear into a roll

and a pair of shorts.

- That's interesting, I don't do it in that way.

So I like that, but I don't do it in that way.

I just do, I roll up the pants individually,

one by one by one, which probably is a waste.

But I do like this, like you could almost,

almost coordinate an outfit.

You could say like, oh, here's my first outfit,

roll it all together. - Yes, that's what I do.

- I like that.

- And here's my other strategy.

I get really, I kind of get into the weeds with this ship,

but I like it, 'cause I've narrowed it down now.

If I'm, let's just say that I'm gonna be gone somewhere,

I'm flying Thursday night and I come back Sunday night.

or Monday morning. Monday morning sometimes I do that because it's cheaper, easier.

I just go straight to work. Whatever I wear on the flight out is what I wear on the flight back.

And so I automatically have two of the days covered just with what I've got on for the next day.

So if I'm going to be gone Tuesday through Monday, or Thursday, if I'm gone Thursday through Monday,

then I only have to worry about Friday, Saturday, and Sunday in the bag.

So that's three days. And at that point I just say, okay, whatever I'm doing,

like three underwear, three socks, maybe four socks,

if it's depending on what the hell's going on.

One pair of shoes, additional,

and then one or two jeans, you could do it with one,

if you wanna be lean, if you're doing a jean in a short,

or two jeans in a short, and then a few shirts,

undershirts, button ups, boom, there you go.

- Yeah, so that's the advantage is that it's an

Organizing mechanism and it's a it's a compression mechanism

And you can get these things anywhere you can get them like it's like he said from ebags calm

I got mine from Amazon Christina got her from Amazon. There's a million different sizes varieties color shapes

Whatever and they're they're not even airtight right like they have met there a mesh kind of bag

And then maybe they are closed on one side and open on the other kind of but it's just a you zip it maybe half way

You can just kind of stuff stuff in there which is important to clarify because in our recent trip to Greece

I often trap was traveling in between cities with things that were either like mildly damp or

Completely wet in some cases. So at least they could breathe some

Which I think is important because I do have a lot of the quick dry kind of shirts and stuff like that

But they weren't fully dry by the time we were ready to move

So I did travel with a number of them in those bags and they they came out smelling fresh. It was great

You're getting me all wound up on the subject. I haven't talked about this in a long time. Oh boy

I since we're since we're over on this packing cube subject. I just got it. This is an opportunity to talk about my favorite fucking

Textile to wear which is wool. Oh, here we go. Marino wool marina wool dude fucking marina wool and travel go hand in hand

They're like best friends, dude. Well, is marina wool the same thing does smart wool use a marina wool?

They have a blend they do I don't know they might have like hundred percent marina wool

But a lot of times it's like wool with poly or sometimes wool with spandex or some combination

But I recommend a sponsor. I'd like to have on the show. I don't have yet, but I'd like I recommend

wool and prints PR INCE how do you what's the wool and spelled out W O O L A N D

PR INCE.com prints, okay

I thought you were talking like prints like as in prints like photos

No, not prints, but like prints like your majesty or whatever the fuck. I don't know you say got it wool and prints

calm and

They have all kinds of men's and women's apparel. They have button-up shirts

And they have pants and blazers, but I really like their their best products in my opinion are their

underwear and t-shirts and they're made of a composition of

Like 70 the t-shirts are 78% merino wool, and I think they have some polyester and some spandex

Kind of look at the composition again. I forgot, but it's like majority merino wool

They're fucking crisp. They look fantastic and you can roll them up and they don't get wrinkled in your luggage

And most people think it looks like cotton. Nobody would be like, oh, what is this weird texture? It looks like cotton

It's very fine. Is this in the looks to me like this is in the realm of premium products

It would be a premium product. However, I wouldn't

Let I wouldn't pass up on the opportunity to own one or two. You're not gonna it's not a cheap shirt

It's a $68 t-shirt, which is fucking insane. A lot of people would say why do you pay $70 for a fucking t-shirt?

Well, if I have two of those on a trip, I don't have to wash them

I could work they actually have a challenge going on right now where they want people to wear one for a week

And I've I've worn them for several days

I was on safari and I had one I had two shirts that I brought and I rotated them for the five-day safari and

At the end of the safari with the dust and everything else like there was no odor on the on the armpits at all

Not only that but are these in the same kind of realm whereas like even if you do need to wash them

They probably dry pretty quickly or is that not the case with this stuff? That's right wool wicks water and it's a great

I mean, that's that's what you want to wear if you're gonna be in the rugged right and out in the outdoors or camping or anything like that

And so what I would do there in that case is like whatever

Place we would be on our base camp on you know in the desert or whatever in the jungle where the fuck we were

We when we got back to camp if I had to clean it out

I would just put it in the sink and I would use a bar soap and

Scrub the areas and ring it out and then just let it air dry and the thing would be overnight. It would be dry

That's what I do when I when I travel I definitely bring like a little it's an itty-bitty little bar

and I was trying to look it up real quickly. I can't find it at the moment.

But it's just a little itty-bitty bar that's probably something like that.

What would that be? Three inches square, something like that.

Oh, yeah, even smaller, more of a cube, smaller than like a hotel bar.

Yeah, it's smaller yet. It's a little thicker but smaller.

And then yeah, I bring that, you kind of lather it up, put your stuff in the sink, wash it up real quick.


Freshens it up, gets rid of some of the stink.

And it's usually dry by the morning. So it's a great way to travel.

And yeah, you can travel with literally hardly anything hardly anything and they make and so wool and prints makes

Boxer briefs and they make underwear that does this that has the same the same combination of material and so

Yeah, for a long trip you could have you know if you wanted to be really lean

You could have three three pair for a week and just kind of rotate and clean and hang dry and do that whole thing

If you don't want to clean them every day if you need to have a little bit more than adjust for that

But but really you could have a couple shirts couple pair of underwear and be covered and and be clean and fresh

It's a great product. It's a great product. I can't say enough about it

I've been doing that now for probably three years and I just ordered some stuff this week, but it's fantastic for travel

Yeah, I think to the point of like it being premium product to like it is an expensive investment upfront no doubt about it

But I think once you once you've bought in and that's kind of what you travel with it

It pays for itself over time and the ease of use

once you have all that.

'Cause I have the same thing.

I have kind of like two pairs of pants that I wear for travel

and I have about three shirts that I may or may not bring.

And usually those are kind of the main things

plus socks and underwear that I bring.

But those are really kind of all I bring with

and actually the most kind of bulky thing that I bring

is a shitload of camera gear,

which I think next time I travel,

I'm gonna limit that as well

and try and scope down what I have.

- Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's worth considering

because these are versatile pieces

that you can do a lot with.

So, again, just to have the flexibility

to wear the T-shirt or use it as an undershirt

for a formal event and have a button up,

they look very crisp, they don't wrinkle,

so if you pull them out of the bag,

it's not like a cotton shirt

where you have to iron it or press it to get it fresh,

you just wear it and naturally the wrinkles come out

if there's anything, any mild wrinkles,

they come out just with your body heat.

It's pretty cool stuff.

So on the soap thing, I'll show you here quickly,

that's kind of the, it's called the Laundress.

It's a little litty-bitty soap bar.

It's showing it in this case, like right next to it,

like a bikini for scale size, I guess.

But it's super small, super, super good.

And then usually what I'll end up doing too

is I'll actually not even bring it home.

I'll just leave it wherever my last destination is.

Something else I don't have to pack,

don't have to deal with.

Toss it out, get a new one.

So it's pretty great.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

I'll add that to the show notes with a link

if you're interested.

You can get it from Amazon no problem. Well, we kind of did a lot of the travel episode already

I got really excited about that stuff because I just can't get enough of it and I with all the travel that I've been doing

I'm a you know Alaska Gold this year

Well almost halfway to status on Delta so I might be a double it might be a double hold on wait a minute slow down

How did you get status on Delta here? I don't I do not have it yet, but I've been taking some trips

that have not been I've been cheating on Alaska a little bit this year because

I have a friend of mine a good friend of mine that I've been traveling with a little bit that he has

He's all in on Delta and he's got status on Delta and so we both like the lounges

You know, I've got an Alaska lounge pass. Well, you're you're you're a fan of baller status

So you gotta baller status kind of supersedes like the airline

I like the airline but baller status has to come first man

And I was in the Delta lounge at SeaTac a couple months ago, and I gotta tell you it was pretty baller

Well, let me tell you if you ever if you're if you're on board with Delta I have this card

And so if I refer a friend I get a lot of miles so make sure that oh

I've gotten the sales pitch already from Patrick about no no no no no let me let me you're coming this way sir

All right, I didn't say I had made the decision right now

They're offering like 80,000 bonus miles. Yeah, there you go. See that what's what's stopping you?

I don't know it would be kind of fun this year to see if I could hit double status Delta Alaska be

Kind of fun gotta have goals man

Somebody gotta have a goal in life

And if you don't have clarity just do something fucking fun

And then you know the clarity I'll come later or it won't and you'll just spend a ton of money on air travel like I do but

We'll see we'll see about that. Yeah

Well, let's move on shall we yeah, what do you want to talk about next? Oh

Random episode here

Well, we're gonna be really random

I mean we've made it we've made it three quarters of the way through the show and only talked about travel at this

Good Lord. Oh, it is the travel episode a little prematurely here. So maybe maybe move on to a little

Return segment. Oh

Whoa, what happened there? I thought we muted the oh that came in on the laptop

God damn it. Do not disturb. I need to set up. Do not disturb. Yeah. I'm sorry. There's all kinds of shit going off

Yeah, so we've had a reoccurring segment

over the over the 30 episodes

uh-huh of

What are you watching?

What are you watching? Is there a sound bite for that? That's not it. There you go. What are you watching?

What else is on here? What are you? What are you watching?

Okay, that's fine. I forgot what we had on those other pads over there


I'm not gonna be able to go deep on this because I haven't I've been watching a lot of smut lately

Okay, I'm not talking about corn nub or nothing like that. Oh, I'm talking about just like junk TV fucking bullshit

You know, I've been working a little bit and

Doing some contract to work a bit. I've been doing a lot of work and so when I'm done working

I don't want to work anymore. I want to go home and just mindless shit, but you watch a lot of YouTube

I do watch a lot of YouTube. It's kind of funny man. I'll start with that. That's fine and I

Don't know where this stuff their algorithm takes me to really interesting places

I don't know how this stuff happens sometimes.

So you just kind of follow wherever it takes you, you go?

Well, I'm a little bored of it right now because I've gone through a ton of different shit.

And it, yeah, sometimes it's current events, type stuff in news, but then other times you

get into it and it's random fucking crap like the probably the last couple of weeks.

I've probably seen over 40 videos of chiropractors cracking backs.

Not Dr. Pimple Popper.

I haven't gotten that in the feed yet.

I don't want to watch that.

Hopefully that doesn't show up, but no like there's this there's this chiropractor that's down in Houston and

What does he call this thing a ringdinger?

That's what he's known for is doing the ringdinger and like he basically just like looks like he's gonna dislocate every joint in

Your fucking body, but he's like a towel around your neck and he's like popping your

Popping your neck and twisting. It's crazy man. So I've been watching this kind of shit

Just to kill the time because there's like a million and a half views and it's like, oh, yeah, you know like person who couldn't walk like

walks again after leaving the chiropractors office.

So what like do they just have like crazy mics right up next to their back so you can just hear these like ridiculous

cracking sounds like what what like what is the?

Well, are you familiar with ASMR?

Yes. So it's it kind of delves into that a little bit.

Which is a whole other interesting topic that we could probably cover in more depth. I don't know what it stands for. It's got a head

it's an acronym I think.

But but the principle is this it's about capturing very like we could do some ASMR shit in here

Probably if we had like little sound effects and like

Blow into the microphone and do weird shit and like

Usually it's like a constant noise of some kind and it may vary but it may not right like it's just a constant sound in the background

It is it is the constant sound and I think that there are people that perform this like there are

People that have their own channel dedicated to ASMR and they'll do it for like nighttime sleeping or whatever it is or

different different topics, but it's all about

soft sounds and really

Creating a very comfortable space. It's almost like therapy for your ear like air therapy. Yes. Yeah, it's huge

And there's even like a playlist on Spotify that are dedicated to just that. Yeah. Yeah, it's blowing up

It's a huge thing that I just came into

Thank you. Gomer

Autonomous sensory meridian response

ASMR and so like these Kyros the chiropractors

Some of that kind of enters into that space a little bit because they do have these

High-performing microphones kind of like we have for a high very high sensitivity microphones

And they'll have them right next to the patient in a quiet room

And then they'll crack their back and all of a sudden big

Whatever it is, you know like I can't make the sound but it's just like you just hear the whole spine just realign boom

And it's kind of a crazy little experience.

- I don't think I'd like that.

- I don't know that that would be my--

- It's kind of like Dr. Pimple Popper.

I don't, you know, like, look,

I go to the chiropractor a couple times a week

and I hear it on my own self.

Like, I don't know that I need to hear that.

Especially in like, you know,

these I'm sure are non-standard back cracking

or whatever that is that they're doing, right?

Like, I don't need to hear that constantly.

- Yeah.

- It's like, I don't know.

Like, these things seem to be like pleasure pain

type of things for people like it.


I don't know if I get it, but.

Well, anyway, I got one that showed up at one point

and I was just like sitting on board off my mind

or I just like, it was on roll

and it was just playing all this shit

and all of a sudden this comes on.

And so now I've been watching a bunch of these things

where this guy had like severe, you know, curved spine

and he's walking straight.

Yeah, it's just interesting stuff.

Inundated with those types of clips now I'm sure.

It's a waste of time.

It's like, oh, you must like these.

Yeah, so now.

Yeah, now I've got 800 of them along along those lines like somehow somebody posted something

I was watching something about cars like where these these car mechanics would go into like, you know

rural Iowa and they'd roll up on some farm and find like some

67 Mustang that had been sitting there since like 1977

And they'd pull it out of the weeds and shit and like restore it and get it running again

So I kind of got into that up for a little bit and off of that there was some detailing videos that started showing up

And so now I got I'm in the day with all these fucking car detailing videos and they've got cars were like, you know

rats have been living in the backseat for 40 years and they go in with like all these

Chemicals and equipment and it looks like it just rolled off the lot. What is there any point at that point?

Like it looks like it rolls. How it's crazy. They're replacing everything. Yeah

I mean, you know, that's kind of an extreme but they definitely have stuff where you've got like cars that are trashed and

Full of mud and dirt and spiders and stuff and then they like they managed to

Underneath as like a beautiful upholstery that just hasn't been exposed in 20 years. Hmm. All right

I don't know why you asked this question cuz I'm giving you the honest truth and it's all a bunch of shit

I don't have anything good to report. I haven't been watching any documentaries on saving the whales or

Securing our border or whatever the fuck, you know, it's been all this kind of weird stuff. All right. Well, I

I have at least a little saving grace to this segment here.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for outing me in front of, out in the open here.

So actually, kind of in the interest of, you know, the travel episode here,

for some reason I got, the attention was given to me on Netflix here to this documentary, I guess you would call it,

and it's called The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann, which is actually,

It's a new story or I guess a real life event that happened kind of I think in the mid 90s.

And it's really about a young girl, Madeline McCann is the young girl's name.

And it's a missing person story. So they were traveling in the Algarve region of Portugal.


It was a UK couple and they're traveling in that area with a big group of friends of theirs.

of theirs and they had rented in this area a nice condo or whatever you want to say some apartment

and during the course of their their travel and their stay there they're one of the couple's little

girls was abducted and this just basically documents the entire timeline of what occurred and so

what had happened is they basically were kind of at a tapas bar that had like eyesight view of

of the apartment in some way.

And so they don't know how exactly the child was taken

or when or how, but anyway, it was taken.

And so basically like it goes through a whole series

of questions like from this guy that ends up kind of like

being overly helpful during kind of like some

of the investigations of like he becomes a suspect.

The parents of course at some point become a suspect.

This guy that works with the guy

that's being overly helpful becomes a suspect.

So it's kind of like a who done it.

Like it just kind of continues and goes on and on and on.

You never know.

- What was this?

- Mid-90s.

- Okay.

- Yeah, so it's an old story.

Never, the child's never been found.

- It's almost like the time of like John Baneil.

It's a whole different story.

That was a big thing.

- I think they even maybe reference that

if I'm not mistaken.

Kind of like child abduction cases

at some point in the documentary.

So I think she's even mentioned,

but it was really interesting.

And it sounds kind of horrible from the concept of travel,

but that area is fricking beautiful.

Like the--


Yeah, and especially this Algarve region,

which is supposed to be kind of the beachy,

resorty area of Portugal.

It's kind of on the southern edge.

So really interesting documentary,

really fascinating to watch and learn the story

of this poor girl who I think affect ultimately,

spoiler alert, if you're watching this,

they think at this point that she was probably sold

into slavery or something like that.

- I like that, right?

'Cause they've never found her, never found her remains,

never found anything.

So, wow.

On the Netflix, we watch a lot of kind of murder mysteries

and yeah, so that's why it was probably recommended to me.

But really, really interesting, I highly recommend it.

I think it's about an eight or nine parter.

So it's pretty in-depth, but pretty interesting.

Also, it kind of goes into corruption as well.

So like they feel like the Portugal,

can't remember what they call their police units,

but they feel like the leader of that was maybe a little bit corrupt.

So the investigation maybe wasn't done as well as it should have been.

And so it kind of dives into a lot of different angles of the case and talks

about like people that are profiting from it and, you know, all kinds of stuff.

It was really interesting.

I like those, those types of documentaries, especially the multi-parters.

And they really dive deep.

I probably talked about it on the show a little bit, but it was a year,

a year and a half ago when that OJ5 parter came out on ESPNs 30 for 30.


I love 30 for 30.

Those are great.

- They do a phenomenal job on everything that they produce,

but this one in particular really stuck out to me.

It was very good.

The one on Junior Seau also was a good one.

- With the CTE.

- CTE and really that,

him, his experience really,

really opened that dialogue up

because before that time,

there wasn't a lot of talk about that.

It was kind of hush-hush

and people didn't really understand the effects of,

you know, concussions on football players at the time.

They were still pretty much in denial about it

and it wasn't really well understood.

- Yeah, and the recent one of those,

if we want to continue down the 30, 30,

the Ric Flair 30 for 30, you know,

as a kid I was a big wrestling fan.

So like I grew up watching Ric Flair

and I thought he was really fun to watch

and really, you know, very talented

and all that kind of thing.

And so watching that one was really, really fascinating as well.

Kind of watching him in what wrestling means to him.

like that's like his life.

All right.

You've mentioned this before and I still have, I've yet to see it.

So it has to go on my list.

I need to watch that one too.

And that would be very interesting to see on a more on a, on a sadder note,

a more disturbing note, kind of along the lines of what you just talked about.

I did watch a Neverland, the Neverland documentary on.

Oh, Michael Jackson.


Finding Neverland.

It's a two parter.

It's on HBO and we don't have a whole lot of time to talk about it. I wish we had more time, but

It was it was disturbing

I mean

I was always a huge MJ fan growing up and I remember the allegations in the 90s and Macaulay Culkin when I

you know testified

That Michael had never done anything to him and I think to this day Macaulay is still a close family friend

I think Paris was in the hospital for something recently and he was there to

support her and

But it talks about these two it really the stories around these two characters that not fucking characters

There's these two these two guys of the tea two key guys that are on the documentary that are being interviewed and they were both

introduced to Michael at a very young age like six seven years old one was in Australia the other one was in US and

and it kind of like goes through their whole experience with him and

very eye-opening very graphic very

disturbing, it's very sad. And you can see like just the the trauma that they still face today as parents. I think that was the hardest part as they're both in their 30s now and they have children of their own that are coming of age when they were introduced to Michael and just to see the the

hurt that they have and like this is a trauma that never really goes away, you know.

Yeah, and I wasn't really familiar with child abuse of that type before.

And so just to kind of understand it a little better too is very informational and eye-opening

like I said.

So we have the R. Kelly documentary on our Plex server.

We haven't dove into it yet.

So it's kind of interesting that you bring this up because similar circumstances or accusations.

So I'm curious a little bit, not necessarily the content of those documentaries, because

I think they kind of speak for themselves, but are you able to kind of divorce who, you

know, the person is versus who the artist is?

In other words, can you take and set aside that Michael Jackson maybe allegedly was a

pedophile and say like, but his work over here is still phenomenal and still listen

to it and still support it?

Is there, can you make that distinction in your head

whereas a lot of people can't separate those two?

But some people can.

So I'm curious as to how your mind aligns on that.

- Well, I can say that he was talented.

I don't think that you can separate

his ability musically from how he conducted himself personally.

I think that's easier for me to do because he was.

I mean, he was a brilliant artist.

and just by shared numbers and volume and everything,

like what he did to pop is undeniable,

even though he had committed these horrific crimes

on children.

I guess the difference now is that he's dead,

so I'm not listening to his music on Spotify today.

I'm not tuning into his stuff.

I'm not buying his things, but I think--

- Is it an active choice, though,

because of the documentary that you've seen?

- Well, at this point, I think that money,

like there's lawsuits to give these victims money

from the estate, and of course his children

are probably entitled to money from the estate.

And so I feel like for those reasons,

I would wanna support his children

and support these victims.

So I mean, I'm less opposed to a boycott there.

If Michael was alive and profiting from shit,

then I would absolutely say, no, boycott,

don't participate, it's not okay.

don't buy and support him. So I don't know. I'm not an active participant. I'm not purchasing

stuff now, but I think it'd be easier to boycott if he was and was still alive.

I think that's an interesting distinction. I had this. The reason I brought this up is

I had this conversation with Christina recently to where, you know, again, to your point,

Michael Jackson is obviously like a reason why much of the pop genre exists. Like he

is obviously the king of pop like he's crazy stratosphere right so yeah can you separate

him from his or can you separate his work I guess from him as a person and I think the

interesting thing that you mentioned and that you brought up is that I think there is a weird

distinction where like in death like suddenly maybe there's like a weird line there that

suddenly maybe it's a little bit more okay whereas like if you listen to art kelly music

It's a different scenario, right?

Like now suddenly you're kind of supporting him.

He's a living person and you're supporting,

you're giving him money.

- That would be the line for me.

I would do nothing to support that individual.

And I would say the same thing for Michael

if he was still alive.

I would do everything I could to make sure

he did not get financial support from me.

- Whereas like others, you know, I don't know.

It's a weird thing, but I've heard other people talk about

like, well, if you're gonna listen to R. Kelly music,

at least then donate to something that supports people

that are abused in this way, right?

Like to kind of negate what you've done,

basically by giving this person money.

So it's an interesting concept and--

- I have a hard time with that, personally.

- Yeah, it's just that, I guess that's the people's way

of wiping their slate clean, if they wanna still work

with the artist versus the actual human being, right?

- Interesting.

- Yeah, it's a hard question.

Like it's, there's definitely like a, it's a hard, it's not,

there's no simple answer here, right?

- That's right.

- Yeah.

- It's crazy. I don't know. I don't know.

It's great conversation though.

I love that you brought that up

and we missed a ton of things

that we're supposed to talk about today.

So I don't know.

- Well, we, we treated ourselves to this 30th episode.

I guess we'll get back on track next week, huh?

- Yeah, I guess so.

Well, let me roll through the old spiel here, right?

- Want to bring us home?

- Yeah, buddy.

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- To the next 30.