45 min read

22: Solving Complex Problems

We have a guest, return guest Joseph Bowley joining us as we take a dive into how to handle solving a complex problem. We also talk about making big life changes and cover the status of Mike's Spinn coffee maker we talked about it all the way back in episode 2 and we talk Chrome extensions.
22: Solving Complex Problems

In this episode, we have a guest on the show for the second time. Return guest Joseph Bowley joins us as we take a dive into how to handle solving a complex problem when you get stuck. We also talk about making big life changes on your own time or as New Year's resolutions. We also cover the status of Mike's Spinn coffee maker that we talked about all the way back in episode 2. We also discuss Chrome extensions and what each of us uses.

Chrome Extensions

Full Transcript

Do you use incognito mode that often?



For what?

Web development all the time.

Oh, okay.

Well, web development makes sense because you're getting rid of caching, but why?


For personal uses.

Any websites you like to frequent?

Not really for personal mode.

That rhyme with...

Born Hub.

Born Hub.

No, it's...

Corn Hub.

The best.



There's a sound bite for you Kyle.

That's the sound bite.

Oh, tapping the Rockies.

When you have a guest, you should have them record their own swear word filter.

Oh, what would it be for you?

We'll do one now and one after you drink some more of that.

Why don't I drink some more? We'll figure it out. We'll play it by ear. We can do it at the end.

- I like that, that sounds good.

Coffee Code Cast number 22.

- Or four.


- Skip one.

Felt like we've done a few more.

Special guest Joseph Bully on the podcast today.

- Hey guys.

- Hey, you know it's been almost a year.

- It's been a little over. - Actually, it's slightly over,

like three days over.

- A little over, three days over?

- What did I write down?

- Was it that close?

January 14th, episode number 10, the Tell All episode.


Let's see if that happens again.

The Tell All, yeah.

I wasn't even drinking that time, so.

Oh my God.

Much better audio quality this time.

If you go back to that episode,

you will hear how much we've come along.

Did you listen to that again recently?



I don't doubt that though,

because we've made some good changes

even in the last couple months.

Well, I mean, he would have been on the snowball.


still have the Yeti.

- Same, Snowball too.

- Yeah.

Now we got the big expensive bastards here.

- Yep.

And this is our first time with the Focusrite,

three microphones, we can even have one more guest on here.

- 18i8, right?

- Yep.

- Yep.

- Yeah, the setup is pretty impressive

compared to last time.

- Here, maybe we should get a picture.

- Take a photo.

- Put it on the Twitter.

- Kids are on the Twitter these days.

- I quit Twitter.

- Did you really?

- Yeah, I quit Twitter.

- Uh, what happened?

I feel like it's just

It's kind of hard to explain like you have

People when they're on Twitter have an in-group that they're talking about they're talking to especially like famous people

They're talking to a specific audience

But it's broadcast to a much wider audience

And so I feel that when I go into

Replies so like popular tweets. It's just like a cesspool of people like fighting each other and bickering and stuff and I also find that like

My opinions on like life and stuff have changed so drastically over the last like

Four or five years since I like made Twitter that if I went back a couple years at the things I was tweeting

I was like, oh geez. I hope like nobody sees this stuff. So I just deleted it

You wanted to wipe history too. Yeah, I should like if I if I go make another Twitter

I want a way to

Delete my tweets after like maybe three months

Okay, or maybe like maybe like a year. I don't think I'll go through as much change as I did in my late teens early 20s

but I

Feel like that would be better for everyone if they just deleted their old tweets, you know like my like that gun guy

What's his name from Guardians of the Galaxy? He should have deleted his tweets. There's been a lot of those. Yeah

Yeah, they did everybody gets dug their history gets dug into and then they find some racist or homophobic or something

Twitter thing somewhere you want to you want to defeat somebody popular find their homophobic tweets from five years ago

I feel like that should be an app the the auto purge

Social media auto purge app. Oh, definitely. That would be a good app if it's not already out there somewhere

I don't know who would pay for it, but all government officials

Everybody famous. We're gonna target

Anybody running for a government position

Will be our target market

Why didn't you just set your account as private?

It was it was I think it no it wasn't private. I don't know I

Didn't want to go through and delete like three years worse the tweets

I just had a friend that had to do that actually a good friend Aaron. Oh

Yeah, oh interesting what happened here

She recently got a promotion she works for Microsoft and they really want her to be evangelizing and and she just didn't want to open up her Twitter account

She had a set to private. Yeah, she just argued with him for a while and was like, I don't know what I posted

five, six years ago and she's like, I really don't want to sit there and scan through all

of it and delete whatever I did say or whatever.

So there's, there's social media managers where you can have multiple Twitter accounts

and like swap between them.

The only thing you have to be mindful of is like making sure you're on the correct account

when you tweet, which has bitten people before, but like, has she, she thought about that?

I don't know.

I mean, yeah, I know what you're talking about.

A lot of people will say like, Oh, their name at Microsoft or something like that, you know,

instead of their personal account,

but I'm not sure why she didn't do that

or look at that option.

- Fair enough.

- So this is the first one since the New Year,

so happy New Year.

- Happy New Year, happy 2019.

- Bully, since you're the guest,

do you have any New Year's resolutions

that you wanna lay out there?

- I prepared for this.

I don't believe in New Year's resolutions.

I don't think they work.

You're gonna make a sweeping change in your life one day.

Like, it's like all those people who like don't work out

they go to the gym for a week in January. It's just not like a healthy way to make goals,

I don't think. I agree with that. I don't work out in January just to buck that trend.

So I'll start February 1st. You were on the workout train for a while,

though. Yeah, I'm back on it again. I'm in a new

gym. Yeah. But there's been a lot of activity the last few weeks. So my attendance there

has been not as ideal. That makes sense. Yeah.

I have made a couple of large changes,

like gradually over time, close to the New Year though,

like I became a vegetarian.

Pretty good at it.

Sometimes I slip up.

I stopped drinking at home.

Like if I'm at home by myself,

I don't like just crack open a beer

and play video games or something.

And I've started working out more.

- Those are all great.

- Yeah.

- And you did them mid-year.

- Yeah, so the vegetarianism started,

I wanna say beginning of October.

I started swimming more,

going to master's workouts more

before my knee surgery.

And I've been going like three to four days a week

since I've been cleared to swim.

And what was the third one?

- Drinking at home.

- I started doing that like mid last year,

like even before that.

- Well, that's interesting.

I don't, I drink a fair amount quite a bit,

but I don't drink at home.

I'm not one of those guys,

like some guys like to go home and it's a relaxed,

kind of de-stresser at the end of the day, right?

I don't do that.

I have alcohol at home, but it's to entertain.

And yeah, like it's never been an appealing thing for me.

- Yeah, so the worst one for me was like,

smoking weed at home.

Like I would go home, I'd just be like,

I'd be tired from work,

I'd wanna unwind and just watch TV.

and I just like smoke a bowl and sit down and just zone out.

And like, I was, I like managed it

because I feel like I was still productive outside of that.

And I would have just like watched TV or like read a book

or played video games anyways,

but I feel like it's more healthy for me like not to do that,

I guess.

- It's kind of the prototypical like movie scenario, right?

And in the movie, you see the guy come home from work,

throw the keys down, grab a beer out of the fridge,

sit down on the couch, turn on the TV.

- There's something about that,

that maybe that's my thing,

because as a child that was embedded in my head,

like dad would, the garage door open,

and you hear him come in,

and come into the kitchen with his briefcase,

and the key chain for his car keys was in the cabinet,

like the cupboard above the microwave kind of a thing,

high up, and so you'd open the door

and you'd hear the keys jingle,

put the keys in, grab something out of the cabinet,

and you start getting, you know, and get to work.

- Yeah.

So just, yeah, there's something about that.

It's kind of very, that's a very typical

- Yeah.

- Experience for a lot of people.

- So New Year's didn't trigger your changes.

What triggered it?

Like why did you decide suddenly?


- Well, the working out more started,

I think after me and this girl,

I'd been dating for a while last year, broke up.

And then I was like, well, I'm kind of out of shape now.

I should probably get back into shape.

And then part of getting back into shape was cutting down the alcohol and weed intake.

The vegetarian thing was just kind of gradual.

Like I was eating like a lot of meat for a while and then I like cut it down to, you

know, red meat.

And then I went just fish for a while for a short time.

And then in October, I was just like, let's see if I can do this.

And now when I eat meat, my stomach hurts, so I don't do it anymore.

What was the motivation for that?

Was it health reasons or agricultural?

- I feel like there's many reasons.

Like some, I don't like to pare it down to one big thing

because that's not, I don't know.

The, one of the big reasons was like,

I feel like the way that we treat farming animals

in the U.S. is like a moral failing, you know?

Like it's very cruel.

Another one is like, it's environmental.

It's better for the environment.

It's like cuts down on carbon emissions.

- The share resources that go into producing that product.

- Yeah, if we, if everybody in the US only stopped eating meat,

you could end world hunger right away.

And like, that's like a very simplified answer to that.

But, and it's like, like the numbers add up,

but like logistically it doesn't really add up.

So that's not like something I would tell somebody

to convince them to go vegetarian.

Yeah, I think that's about it.

And how's that been going out and that sort of a thing?

Is it a problem or not so much of a problem?

- Not so much, I love cheese.

- Oh yeah, Terry.

Hell yeah.

- Not full vegan, so I can still do that.

With restaurants, I'm not as strict.

Like I'll still eat fish and like chicken

maybe like once a month.

And I'll never let it to get in the way

of like a cultural experience.

Like if I was, if I flew to India

and was staying there for a while

and wanted to try Indian food,

I think I would definitely eat meat there

because I wanted authentically experience that.

You know?

- See, I think that's the counter to what you said

when you said resolutions don't work.

I think that's the flaw.

I think the philosophy is ultimately flawed

'cause you're saying, well, I'm making a sweeping change.

So I'm gonna go from drinking four nights a week

to not drinking again.

Most people just do it for a month.

But I think a more moderate approach

gives you more success, right?

You can do that and say, well,

I'm not necessarily not eating it.

It's just that my preference is to not eat.


And depending on the scenario.

So I would treat it like drinking.

Okay, I'm not gonna go out as much,

but if there's a work event going on,

then I'm not gonna stop myself from having a few beers.

I think that's the thing is you have to get small wins.

Like most people will take it as a big chunk.

They're gonna be like,

"Hey, I'm gonna lose 50 pounds this year,"

or something like that,

which is like a mammoth goal

that's really hard to actually complete.

But if you started with a small goal and said,

"Hey, in this month I'm gonna lose five pounds."

Okay, build off of that, right?

Which is kind of what you're talking about

where you started with one thing and then you were like,

"Okay, I can do this, now I'll add something else."

- It's additive. - It's very manageable.

- And at the first moment, the first crisis or adversity,

you're not going back to the old ways again.

It's like, "Well, I wasn't shooting for perfection here.

I'm just trying to really build better habits."

So I didn't fail at drinking a beer.

- That's another thing.

I feel like when I've slipped up on those changes in my life,

the slip ups have been like very small.

Like if you make small steps up, but you go back a step,

it's better than like trying to jump up to something

almost unachievable and then not being able to do it

and falling back down to where you were, you know?

- That's right, yeah, yeah.

Very good.

Yeah, that's been my approach this year too.

I don't have any major sweeping things

because yeah, I also started working out back in the fall,

but just being more consistent with it three days a week

is where I'm at with that.

Yeah, you know, I wanna look a little better,

getting better shape.

Although I tell you what, I'm not in great shape right now

and still not having any problem meeting the ladies, so.


That's been tough.

- It's your powerful personality.

- That charisma.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, that's right.


I need the good looks crutch.


Oh, fuck, man.

- All right, let's move on to some follow up here.

I found a hole in the backup strategy

that we had talked about last week,

or well, not last week, a month ago.

- Now, this was, refresh me, this was your sand device

that you got, your network attached device

that you bought for Plex server and all that shit.

- Right, so we had talked about the Synology device

that I have, which is the kind of the on-premise RAID device

that I have for local backup, local storage.

It then has software on top of it

that can sync to the cloud.

So in this case, I was using Amazon Cloud Drive

and syncing all my content to that,

which at the time we were thinking,

well, that was a great solution.

And nothing bad happened, but come to find out,

I kind of poked a hole in the whole idea

And that was that because it's a two way sink

from my Synology to the cloud with Amazon Drive,

if one of those got wiped, the other gets wiped.

- We'll wipe it for you.

- Now I have a third tier, which is Backblaze,

which is another storage device that I pushed directly to.

It's a one way sink, only goes up.

And so I always have a continuous backup

going into Backblaze.

And that's a very large container storage.

Like it's the same thing as what we talked about with Glacier,

where you pay for, you pay a nominal fee

for the amount of storage,

but then you pay for the IO kind of to retrieve it,

is where you really get dinged if you have to retrieve data.

Got that set up, took about three days maybe for it

to sync all my shit up to back blades,

but now I have kind of a three tiered approach,

I guess you might say.

- And what's your experience with the Synology still

after using it for a while?

- I still love it, it's great.

And I have, I've upgraded the raminate,

it's running quite a number of services,

running Plex, it's running the sync service. What else do I have running on it? I have

a handful of other apps that do a bunch of downloading. No, it works great. I love it.

Highly recommend it. Yeah, that's cool. I was going to look into that for Plex server

and I haven't really had time to do that yet, but that would be a fun project still. Cool.

Joseph, since you're new, I added you to the notes here that we wanted to check and see

see what, if any, backup strategy you had.

'Cause Mike gave us his strategy,

which was basically straight to Google Photos.

That was kind of his only backup strategy.

So do you have anything beyond that?

- No.

Oh, I have, I mean, my photo is automatically backup.

Everything on my phone backs up,

which is all the important stuff.

Any documents, important documents,

I just upload to my Gmail drive, whatever it is.

- Yeah, so you're all in on the Google Cloud.

Yeah, I think it's... I don't need a sophisticated, like I don't have any

Proposal videos or anything like that going on.

No music? Well, you didn't even grow up in the in the days of actually having to host your own mp3s and that sort of business

You stream everything. I have Spotify premium. You stream. Yeah.

In movies you have none of those. I have Netflix. Okay. Yeah

He's a youngin so he doesn't know all these old technologies from the olden days. Just turn 24

Oh my gosh, happy birthday, bully.


I mean, that's a little belated.

I'm sorry.

It's like it was like three weeks ago.

Yeah, I can tell.

That's all right.

Oh man.

I was laid up three weeks ago.

I got really sick over the.

When's it when when was your birthday?

December 27th, right after Christmas.

I do have a new year thing, though.

This is a continuation from last year as well.

But I did sign up for another round of Lindy Hop

at the Century Ballroom.


Same partner.

Oh yeah, same partner.

So we this will be our let's see one two three fourth class. We're getting okay now

We're getting to the okay stage took four classes to get to the okay stage. Yeah, we didn't know what the hell we were doing

That's that's okay. Yeah, that's pretty cool. It's cool. I could dig it. Yeah, I really like it. It's a fun

Really fun way to meet people and hang out have been and boom

Yeah, I have this I have a dance class story actually yes, so I

One time so two of my friends in college you met Devon. Yes, and her roommate

they they were going to jazz dance club in college and

They decided they wanted me to come too and so I was just in my room

I didn't know that it was even happening

I had just taken an edible and I in my dorm room

So I was like getting ready for that

And they like roll up and I was still feeling fine and they were like hey

"Do you want to go to Jazz Dance Club?"

I was like, "Oh, sure, yeah, that sounds fine.

I feel great right now.

Get there."

It hits me super hard.

And I remember, like, I wasn't doing the moves correctly

'cause I suck at dancing.

And this guy, like, stopped the entire class

and, like, made me do this move in front of everybody.

- Oh, no.

- And it was, like, a dip move.

And I had this girl who was, like, bigger than me

and so I couldn't, like, effectively dip her.

and they were making me stop, me and her stop

and do this in front of the class.

And I was just like, dude, like in my mind,

I was like, dude, it's not happening.

Can you please stop?

- Move on.

- I'm like, hyper anxious.

I'm like, oh God, they're gonna know I'm high.


- They're coming after me, they're gonna find me out.

- They're gonna find out I smoked the wacky weed.


- I'm gonna clip that too.

- I like that.

Yeah, we're gonna make, this is a soundbite episode.

We're gonna make a lot of soundbites

for the sound board that we don't have yet.

We're working on it.

Work on the sound board.

That roadcaster pro looks pretty cool.

I'm glad I can become a permanent part of the pod.

Yeah, we do need his permission.

We should have made him sign the waiver

before we started recording.

Let's move on, shall we, from the weed and the drinking?

If you insist.

Or do you have more to talk about in dancing?

No, not much more to talk about.

I did get some new dance shoes though.

And I would recommend that.

What is that?

Like what do they do that is different than standard?

They click when you touch the--

That's tap shoes.

That's a different class.

I mean, I want to see him doing tap dancing.

Don't get me wrong.

That would be amazing.

Yeah, I'm going to work on that.


We could have that on the cast too,

because we could just put some mics down on the floor.

That could be our sound bite.


If you give me a few more Coors Lights,

anything's possible, boys.

No, they're just-- they're suede bottoms.

So they don't have rubber soles.

And it's very slick.

So it's all on a wood floor naturally, right?

like a gym floor and it just goes,

you gotta be careful, you don't go flying around,

flying your ass.

- But it, I know for like Christina doing Zumba,

like her shoes that she buys from them,

they have like, they are rubber sold,

but the ball of the foot is like around,

like it has a round kind of print on it,

so that you can pivot easier,

rather than it kind of gripping and stopping you

from like spinning.

So I wonder if it's kind of the same kind of premise.

- I don't, I'll look next time,

but I don't recall that seeing anything like that.

It just seemed like the bottom was.

- No, no, no, yeah, yeah, I get that,

but like it will help you so that you don't grip

to the floor, right?

As you're spinning or trying to do various things, right?

- Right, yeah, exactly.

Well, and this is the other thing too,

taking four rounds of classes now, 20 weeks, about.

In the beginning, watching them do these things,

like even the basic movements,

everything was very exaggerated in the beginning,

like a basic step, I would might move like three feet

or something like that.

And I think what's cool about the progression

of the whole thing is that the more we get into it,

like the fewer movements that you really make.

Like you don't have to move that much.

You don't have to lift your foot off the ground that much.

Like everything's really kind of micro.

And in the beginning it just seemed overwhelming.

And I'm like, oh, I gotta do this and really exaggerate it.

And that's not the case.

And so it's getting easier that way.

It's kind of fun.

- All right, moving on.

Let's talk a little bit about chrome plugins.

- Who uses chrome anymore anyway?

- Bullies is chrome.

Yeah, I use Grom. Reddit enhancement suite.

I wasn't ready for you yet.

What are you enhancing?

You probably replace all images like cat images or something like that.

No, it just like-- well, it used to be really important because--

Well, you don't use the beta, though.

I do use the beta.

You do?


When-- OK, so--

Chrome beta?

No, Reddit.


So you know old Reddit before they did the big update?

Kyle does.

I mean, I used it before, but I couldn't tell you what changed.

I don't know what happened.

- It looked like a website from the 90s.

- Kind of like Craigslist.

- Uh, I don't know.

- Not as bad as Craigslist.

- I don't know what Craigslist looks like.

- Have you not used Craigslist?

- Nope.

- Are you an OfferUp guy?

You just don't barter online.

- No.

- Okay.

- I prefer Amazon.

- Oh, do you sell items on Amazon?

- No, I buy items on Amazon.

- Do you use eBay?

- I have used eBay once only.

I didn't use it.

My mom used it to buy me something.

What'd she get you?

- I think it was like a Yu-Gi-Oh card.

- The fuck is he talking about?

- Fuck is a Yu-Gi-Oh.

- It's like Pokemon cards,

but they had a different cartoon

and it was like different, I don't know.

- Oh.

- Yeah.

It was like, it was a trading card.

- I don't have anything to add to that.


- That's fair.

I think it's a generational thing.

- All right, let's go back to Chrome plugins.

- I do understand Chrome plugins, yes.

- Reddit enhancements, too.

- Reddit enhancements, sweet.

- Sweet.

- They read it used to be a site

and it looked like it was designed in the 90s.

- It's still a site by the way.

- It used to look like it was designed in the 90s

and they did a big update

so it's not as important anymore

but back when it was important,

it would add features like loading the next page

when you scroll to the bottom.

So it had like an end with scroll

instead of like clicking through web pages.

It would have like an image blow up.

So like if somebody linked an image,

you could just click a button

and it would show within the website

rather than having to go to an image hosting site.

Stuff like that, like little tweaks

that make modern web browsing nice.

- Yeah.

- I don't know what it does anymore,

but I keep it on there because I think it helps.

- So is that the topic?

Is this like what Chrome extensions do you use?

- What do you use?

Yeah, so you use, what else do you use besides?

- Adblock plus.

- Adblock, so you're a big Adblock fan.

- Yep, I do Adblock.

I have some like PDF reader stuff in Chrome that makes it easier to read books on my computer.


And then I have another like I have a Google Cloud extension too, but I don't really know

what it does.

I've had these I've had all these for like a long time, and they're just so integrated

into like the things I do online that I don't really notice that it's different anymore.

So you're like a last pass user, right?

At work.

I really want to get last pass on my home computer, but I don't.

You don't have a password manager, right?


So that's all the plugins that you have primarily that you can think of.

Any of them, do you allow, for you, it probably doesn't matter because none of them are secure

or create any kind of secure problem.

So allowing them in incognito map mode doesn't probably matter to you or even you probably

don't care.

Yeah, I don't think I care that much.

I do have, oh, and the one I did download one recently, it was like Google Authenticator,

so I have like two factor authentication on certain things.

But that's not, that's the, there's like an extension for Google Authenticator?

I think so.

I have it on my phone and I have it on, I think Chrome.

Sure enough.

Yeah, there is.

I might have to look at that one.

Mike, what Chrome extensions do you run?

Do you run Chrome?

I do run Chrome.

Yeah, that's the only browser I use, actually, is Chrome.

Last pass, password manager.


Adblock standard, probably.

I don't think I pay for it.

And my budgeting, I use Winab.

You need a budget.

Winab is my soft, my budgeting.

So what is that? What does the extension allow you to do?

Yeah, it's just it's since it's a web-based app

It's kind of like you were just Joseph was talking about with reddit. It just gives you a better user experience

They've fixed a lot of these things and their product now

It's been out for a couple years when it first came out

It was lacking in some functionality like for example some of the reports

They had a they had a desktop version of the software and then they went to a cloud based version software as a service

and there wasn't, it didn't bring over all the features initially. And so this

extension tried to make up the difference. And so that must be a third

party extension. Yeah, it's a third party. And so it tried to build in some things

and make it a little easier to use. The other one I use is called Hey Habit and

it's, it replaces the default screen, the home, like the blank screen when you open

a new tab and it kind of looks like a calendar and you can put in all the

different habits that you have and then like click the box when you do it.

So reading or working out or whatever, drinking beer, kind of see,

track your, your habit history.

And it comes with a daily inspirational photo.

I've noticed that on your machine when I walked by on occasion, not the checkboxes

so much, but the photo for sure.


You allow the unit of budget in incognito mode or any of the other extensions

that you have.

Reason I ask that is because like it has a privacy concern potentially, you're allowing a third party access into what's supposed to be a very private session.

I do not.

My extensions are not on incognito mode.

None of them.


Do you use incognito mode that often?



For what?

Web development all the time.

Oh, okay.

Well, web development makes sense because you're getting rid of caching, but why?


For personal uses.

Any websites you like to frequent?

Not really for personal mode.

That Reign with Born Hub.

Born Hub.


No, it's--

Corn Hub.


Dot com dot work.

The primary one would be one password,

which is my password manager,

and I use that a lot in Cognito mode

to log into different various websites,

to log into applications that I'm developing,

whatever, it doesn't matter.

That would be the first one that comes to mind.

And I think that's the only one that I have in,

that has allowed in incognito mode, I think.

But I have quite a bunch of other ones.

I have the Amazon Assistant for Chrome.

I use that quite a bit.

That just gives you alerts and notifications

based on Amazon purchases and that sort of thing.

You can also add things from other websites

to your Amazon shopping list.

Just kind of with one click.

So I use that quite a lot.

I have DuckDuckGo because I use that as a search engine.

So I have that extension, Google Doc in Drive plugins.

I have all those.

I call it bookmarks, which is actually a pretty cool one

because I use Safari as my primary browser on my Mac,

but I use Chrome on Windows.

That syncs my bookmarks from Chrome to the Mac side,

and as well as Safari on my iPhone.

So that way I can keep the same set of bookmarks

in both places.

- I wanna talk, can I go off on a little tangent

about Amazon because you said you use it

to track your packages.

- Yep.

- There's some changes going on on Amazon right now

about package delivery.

I don't know if you've had this experience,

either one of you guys,

but twice in the last two weeks,

like well, end of December, beginning of January,

I've ordered a few items and I ordered some stuff

to my apartment and I just moved,

but at that place I did not have like a concierge service.

It was just a private residence.

And I had a package sent there and they couldn't reach me

'cause I wasn't home.

And so instead of reattempting delivery,

it said info needed.

And they would not reattempt delivery.

Like we need more information on how to deliver your package.

Like we need to know the code to get in or some way

that the courier can get it inside the building.

I've never had that happen before.

And it happened again.

I ordered a clothing steamer

And I had it sent to the office on the third.

And they tried delivering it like at 8 p.m.

It was UPS and it was the same shit.

They came back the next day and said more info needed

and didn't reattempt delivery.

- So I've had the same issue delivering here

where I would intentionally have it delivered

say like on a Monday.

And then for whatever reason they're ahead

and they tried to deliver it on a Sunday.

And then they would say,

"Oh, failed delivery, couldn't access the building."

But in those scenarios, I've always had

like an automatic re-delivery the next day.

So it's not gonna problem.

- They always used to retry.

So I don't know what's going on.

Now the first case was using Amazon's proprietary

shipping service.

And that could be different because, you know,

they'd act differently, but this one was UPS.

- Yeah, that's a little strange from UPS.

Any of the big three like FedEx, UPS or USPS,

I would have expected no problem there.

- Right.

Yeah, I had to get on the Horn of Customer service

and I said, "Hey, it's been 10 days.

I haven't received this thing yet.

And they said, well, it's already past the delivery window.

We can just say that it's missing or lost or stolen

or something and we'll just send a new one out.

- And that's frustrating too, because like,

traditionally the office has always been kind of like

the safe place to send it.

Like if I'm not gonna be home or if I don't want to stolen

or whatever, I always send it to the office

and that's kind of like, I always considered that the easy

or safe place, it would always arrive.

- Safe place to do over beds too?

- Well, it fucking got here, didn't it, Joseph?

Perfect use of the bomb filter right there.


- You have one yet?

What would your filter sound like?

- I don't know.

- He's not that lubed up yet.

We gotta give him some more Picardi.

- I don't know if it's gonna happen.

- You're putting me on the spot.

I'm feeling it.

- He's feeling it.

He's just not feeling that inspired.

- I put a lot of Wayland's 151 in there.

- This episode was sponsored by Wayland's liquor cabinet.

Thank you, Wayland.

I also looked for Wayland's eggnog.

- Oh, but is that gone finally?

- It's probably, it's gone, unfortunately.

- I had just a little pour of that thing

and it was potent.

- That man knows his way around hard alcohol.

- Yes, I would never challenge him in that arena.

- He's a great office mate.

- You're doing this all wrong.

Let me show you here, get out of the way.

Oh yeah, I always like whenever we make drinks back there, I'm always like, "Weyland, what do you recommend?"


He was all over the Spanish coffees when we made those.


Startin' stuff on fire.


Well, that's right. I remember you guys did that.

Dropping flaming sugar onto the floor.


Oh yeah, I mean like, I didn't want that responsibility, but I trust Wailand with flaming alcohol in the office.

Oh, sure. If there's one guy that has that under control, use the guy.


Yeah, so I don't know what the Amazon, getting back that whole thing, what that's about.

But it happened twice.

It's never happened.

Six years of getting shit from them or whatever, that's never happened before.

So I don't know what they're doing now.

Yeah, they're definitely delivering, I think, at later times.

And maybe that's it.

Maybe because the stuff is out of business hours now, then they just have a different

procedure for that than they do if it's eight to five, they'll re-attempt.


I don't know.

Well, to sum up or finish up the extensions, a couple that you might be interested in,

Todoist. I have Todoist for Gmail. So when you open up Gmail, it gives you a Todoist

list at the bottom so that you can attach emails to your Todo items or that sort of

thing, or you can do anything with Todoist. You can add items just like you would through

the app itself. And then I have a Todoist task manager for Chrome itself. So you can

actually click the button up at the top of Chrome and same thing. You can open up the

list and do stuff from that instead of having to use the app or the website or whatever.

Excellent. Okay. And then view JS DevTools, which we use here pretty extensively. But

that pretty much rounds out what I got. Not doing a lot of front-end work right now, but

that's good to know.

One of the problems I have with Chrome extensions is like some of them get access to your personal

browsing history if you download them.

And so I kind of try to not use too many of them, I guess.

I would say generally that's true of me, although I do have most of any of us probably.

But they're very specific to services that I use pretty regularly.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Like I don't I don't go installing just all kinds of random weird, you know grease monkey script type things

That's a good idea extra toolbars. Yeah, exactly

like grandma

Have you ever seen there's like I remember back when those were a big thing like there was a screenshot of like some browser

Where you couldn't even see the content of the screen because there was like

17 toolbars that were just like stacked one on top of the other have the ask jeevs bar and then like five fucking

Promotional bars underneath it in an Explorer 6.

AOL bar, Netscape bar.

That's right.


I remember that.

I remember all of those things.


No bueno.

Mike, tell me about your iPad.

You got a new iPad.

Dude, I have an iPad Pro.

11 inch.

With stylus.

I got the Apple Pencil.

Sorry, a pencil.

My mistake.


And the Apple proprietary pencil.

That's right.

It only works on this model.

So when I upgrade,

gotta spend $100 on the next model.

It's great.

I really like it a lot.

Well, I'll say this, the 12.9, the larger version,

way too big.

It'd be like carrying around my MacBook Pro.

It just felt awkward.

Too much, too big.

This is great.

Had it for about a month.

been traveling a lot, mileage runs, getting mileage runs.

I got my MVP gold status last year.

So I've been bringing this thing on planes,

Netflix movies, downloads, it's really nice.

- You travel exclusively with that then

instead of the MacBook?

Or do you bring both?

- I tried it, okay, so I still have that old,

well, I have that Dell XPS 13 that I got a year ago.

- Yeah.

- Remember that one?

Like the small guy.

So I brought that and the iPad to Sacramento on Monday.

Did not bring this.

You lined up all your computers, you could have like the AT&T bars in size.

Yeah, exactly.

You can make your own AT&T commercial.

I have enough.

Yeah, I need to use Craigslist or OfferUp and kind of get rid of a few things.

This is very nice though.

I like it a lot.

It's because it syncs with everything else.

The phone, the iPad, the iMac, everything's together.

Like the writing apps that I use, note taking, syncs to everything.

It's a nice ecosystem.

I like it all.

And I think the 11 inches is a good size.

It's not too large.

And the keyboard's okay.

It's a little difficult to get used to

because it is scrunched together,

but it's not that bad.

And it can do everything except for development

that I'm doing.

So it's a nice note taker.

I did buy the remarkable a while back.

Remember that digital tablet?

The digitize around this is fantastic.

And so there's some good apps out there

that you can use that work way better than that.

So I'm gonna be selling the remarkable two.

Note, something, something, what is this thing?

Notability, and yeah, great way to keep your notes organized.

It's all in color.

Yeah, it's good.

- So what do you find yourself using it primarily for?

Like what are the primary use cases

that you use that versus your MacBook?

The MacBooks only really use for development, so if I am at home, I have an island in the

kitchen, I'll have this open on there and I'll be reading Apple news.

I have all my subscriptions now through that, so The Times, Wall Street Journal, Economet,

all that shit.

So I'll read the news in the morning on that and play Spotify to my speakers in the apartment

through this and check email.

Yeah, it's really like the multitasking device.

And then if I really need to be heads down getting work done,

it's on the MacBook Pro.

'Cause right now, well, I have windows running in parallels.

So that's really handy.

I can go back and forth, Windows Mac coding.

It's kind of the coding workhorse.

And the iPad is the productivity tool for everything else.

- I've heard kind of the same type of stories

about the iPad primarily is that like,

Most people can't develop on it,

even people that are developing Mac specific apps,

there's still no like Xcode or anything like that for it.

- Right.

- The funny thing about it is that everything

that I've heard about the iPad compared to the MacBooks

is that the iPad actually in many cases

is more powerful than the MacBooks.

In terms of like pure spec wise.

So the fact that they don't have a development platform

available to it is kind of like a very large missed

opportunity or maybe it's on the way but.

- Yeah, if that's the case then I would agree with you.

It's very snappy because yeah, it has that what a 11 bionic chip, right?

A 12. I don't remember, but it's but it's also a different operating system.

So it's hard to compare because yeah, it's very responsive.

I've never had really any latency or delays with it, but you're just running kind of a lightweight OS.

I'd love to see it running windows and now that shit made this has this has more Ram hard drive,

that sort of thing. But I suppose you could max that out and get pretty damn close to.

But I think in terms of like pure CPU performance, like they the specs or the benchmarks say that

Maybe not that model, but the the most beefy model that you can get of that will outperform a lot of the MacBooks. Okay

That's impressive. It only came out a few months after the MacBook

Pro line came out

Because what this was late summer and I think the iPads were



October November

Great screens beautiful resolution the retina display. It's all right. Yeah

Yeah, all very nice. Just so doesn't seem to he's laughing at you right now

It's okay. Just the way you said retina. Oh, yeah, that's the

Johnny I've

Aluminium aluminum. Oh, is that the spokesperson for Apple now or something?

I think they're a chief design guy got it

I think you showed me a video of him the iPad 11 Pro has a beautiful 11 inch retina display

He's got a very posh English

Aluminium that are refugees mined out of the earth

Small Chinese children built these machines. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty bad

Yay consumerism. Yeah, maybe I should stop eating beef too. Okay

All right moving on from the iPad Pro I have another question way back on episode two oh


That's more than a year ago.

Let me think about that for a minute.

What would we have talked about in episode two?

Okay, so the first episode was Mike Check.

And like was episode two the first full length feature?



It was around Thanksgiving time, I believe.

And we were talking about the tech

that we were thankful for.


Think you're narrowing in on it maybe.

Am I getting close, warmer?

But what did you...

So we talked about home, so like, for you, it was like your Sonos devices.



You liked the networking, the Sonos, the Sonos devices.

And we talked about Echo and that kind of thing.

And I don't remember what else.

Spin coffee maker.

Oh God.

Fuck you.

Fuck you.

Fuck you.

Fuck you.

Um, yeah, I did get another, another update last week.


- Look, the forums are fascinating by the way.

Like the forums, like there's the same like seven

or eight people that are just like flinging rocks

to these guys, but they're still hanging on.

- Wait, can you back up a couple steps and tell me?

- Oh yeah.

- So you guys want to, the original joke was a sponsorship

from Spin Coffee Maker.

- No, that was not, I mean, we were joking,

but no, we weren't gonna get a sponsorship.

Mike actually has an order through, what, a Kickstarter?

- They were on Kickstarter and this happened two years ago.

So this would have been in 20, well really December, 2016.

If you can go back that far.

- Sidebar, for those of you who don't know,

Mike's really big on Kickstarter things.

- I buy a lot on Kickstarter.

I bought a battery charger, like you know those Anker,

Anker. - Yeah.

- USB-C charger is a Kickstarter thing

that lets you charge all your USB-C devices.

It'll charge the MacBook Pro, iPad, any laptop that's USB-C.

It will charge.

- So, I don't have a whole lot of information on this,

but like there's a problem with USB-C

where it was supposed to be a cord

that could plug into anything,

do data transfer, charging, et cetera, et cetera.

But it didn't really accomplish that.

And I'll have a whole lot of extensive knowledge

on that subject.

- I don't know.

This is the first time hearing of it.

I don't know. Oh, okay.

I don't use it for much other than basic charging.

So does it charge everything then?

It will, yeah, that's the claim.

It has enough power to charge even a MacBook Pro,

so you can, and that's the most energy hungry device

you can get, so, and it can charge multiples

at the same time, so you can do the iPad, the Mac,

it has three ports and the phone at the same time.

Go back to the spin coffee, two years ago, December 2016.

two years and a month ago, and half a month ago.

- The beginning of the Trump presidency.

- Oh God, it was the beginning, at the end.

Yeah, it was in December 2016.

And this coffee maker was on Kickstarter,

and it was very exciting.

Demo, video, infographics, but it's Alexa.

It's an Alexa compatible coffee maker.

It's a La Marzocco type machine.

It's a commercial type machine for the home.

And so they've taken all the components and put them in.

It's the first consumer grade like home,

bean to coffee, whatever they call that, machine.

So it looks like a Mr. Coffee,

but you actually have a conical bird grinder on top

and this thing's Alexa enabled

and it's wifi, it communicates like when the beans are low

it'll automatically reorder the beans for you

and have them shipped to the house.

But I think even more than that,

like one of the things that made it very unique

was that it used some centripetal force

to like instead of like pressure, right?

That's right.

To extract water from the coffee grounds,

which is kind of a unique take,

which I don't think I've ever seen anything else emulate

even still.

Yeah, it's something crazy.

Like tens of thousands of RPMs, this thing will spin

and it extracts the goods out of the coffee bean

at an even rate at the right temperature.

And there are, the engineers behind this

have worked with a lot of the big commercial coffee products.

They have a deep bench when it comes to expertise

around coffee making.

And so yeah, it was a high quality product

that was Wi-Fi enabled, interconnected,

and all that shit.

And we're still waiting for it to deliver.

That's kind of the long story short.

It was gonna be delivered sometime in mid 2017.

And then they had delays, delays, delays.

- So what's the excuse then?

- There's been a lot of things.

I mean, ultimately, they made a lot of assumptions early on

in the prototyping phase that didn't pan out really well.

And so they were, when they were doing

stress testing on the device,

they were running into various issues.

So the grinder was too noisy

or the water heater was positioned incorrectly

and like the beans were,

the extraction process was uneven.

So you would get beans that were getting too much exposure

and burning and other ones that were getting enough.

And so it was an inconsistent blend.

- Oh, so it's gonna roast the coffee as well?

- Does the whole process,

- Well, no, not roast, but I'm just saying,

like as far as putting the water into the ground beans,

you know, it was some areas were getting oversaturated,

overheated and other ones not so much, not enough.

- You'd think of it was spinning those things though,

like the even, I don't know how it works.

- Yeah, I mean, they, and they're very detailed

in their updates about this stuff.

So I mean, it's legitimate.

It's just that they were,

let's just say they're very unrealistic

about their delivery estimates.

And they've had to go back and re-engineer many parts

to get this thing to work up to the quality standards

they wanted to hold up to.

And so they've stopped about a year ago

giving us estimated dates of delivery.

And just instead like kind of let us know,

hey, in this round, you know, like,

Paul's team worked on this thing

and they found this flaw and they're fixing it.

and we got the tools we made in China for that part

and all this shit, you know, I mean,

and they just got another round of funding.

So they're actually doing okay.

I mean, they've ramped up.

They've got a lot of staff.

They have a lot of engineers on this thing.

And some of the test setups are really cool too.

I mean, they have YouTube videos of them

stress testing these things.

It's really quite impressive.

- So is this gonna end up being like,

again, I'll reference my friend Aaron Hoop

who long time ago bought, what was it?

The coolest cooler thing I think it was that one.

It comes with a free blender on top.

That was it, yeah.

She was gonna use it on her boat.

She was all excited.

She ordered right away, went on for years and years,

like didn't deliver, didn't deliver, didn't deliver.

And then all of a sudden they send out this email

and they're like, "Hey, we're gonna start selling

these things on Amazon, but we haven't delivered

to all our original backers yet.

But if you want one, you could go buy it on Amazon.

Is it gonna be the same type of deal?"

I think what's gonna happen with these guys,

they are gonna, well, they're already way late,

but they have been very good on a couple fronts.

One, still to this day, anybody can get a refund.

So if I wanted to stop waiting for this thing,

I could just say, hey, take my money back.

By the way, they stopped doing the discount pricing.

So I got this thing, I got the big daddy

that comes with the milk steamer and all this shit.

And it was deeply discounted.

I think retail price for that was around 9.99.

I think I paid 6.49 for that.

And it does, so the price point's good.

It's a small piece and it makes all your drinks.

So you can say Alexa make an espresso

or Alexa make a maricano,

whatever type of coffee you wanna have,

like it will adjust and do that for you.

The other piece that I like about it

is they have a curated coffee bean store

with the features local roasters,

like small roasters across the country.

And so you can find, I'm just gonna make shit up,

You can find your Umbria bean or your Herkimer coffee there if you want to whatever and so they curate these things from all over and


Whatever the fucking coffee bean guy is called

Can put his own

Recipes or own rules into the machine so if you buy my bag of beans and it's the dark roast

Then it's gonna have these adjustments in the machine

To give you the perfect brew

You just scan the code and

Bam that sounds interesting to me. Yeah. Yeah, it seems a little gimmicky, but I'm sure like if it works that'd be pretty cool


So I'm excited for it. I held out for a year and a half by not buying any other coffee stuff

I had like French press

But I've slowly started building up my

Like I have I have one of those be a letty

Percolators now. Yeah, at what point do you just say fuck it and might get a Breville or whatever we have I've thought about it

It's a sunk cost already. I mean that money was spent two years ago. I got to keep it in the divorce. So you know I

Didn't have to like buy her out of her half of the coffee maker

The coffee maker that you don't I don't have yeah exactly

So you know as far as I'm concerned

It'll be a nice gift if it ever shows up

And if not, I just have really good French press at home anyway, and there's no ATA. They're not giving out any ATAs anymore

Yeah, it's it seems smart to me considered everything considering what's happened already. Yeah, what they're doing is they're providing really lengthy reports once a month with videos and

Descriptions of everything that happened over the last month. Here's where we improved here's like something new we discovered and

And they're in the manufacturing process and I know a little bit of this from when I worked at Stanley, but there's different

You know names for each kind of tollgate or whatever each step of the process

And I think they're in the process called beta one. And so there'll probably be another beta behind after that beta two

May I don't know if there's a third one, but they're getting

Closer to production. It's just not quite

Ready for mass production yet. It's it speaks highly of them that they the fact that they've been so delayed and that people

Generally speaking in these types of things when they have delays that are this of this magnitude people will will ask for refunds

And effectively that'll bankrupt whatever they're trying to do.

So the fact that that hasn't occurred yet,

like speaks pretty highly of them,

especially given the timeline.

- I think that it was at a very low point there,

sometime in late 2017, '18,

where a lot of people had been out of frustration,

asked for refunds and bailed on the thing.

There's a small group of us that are just like,

"Hey, this is how these things go.

There's no guarantees."

And then I thought it was really encouraging

that they just raised a pretty hefty round,

I think last month, so I don't know.

- Well, it generated a lot of interest originally, right?

- Yeah, it did.

- Yeah, that probably helped their case right there

to get more funding that they didn't just need

from Kickstarter.

And I would imagine that if there's a sizable group

that are still in it after all the delays,

like two years down the road,

that that would help them as well.

I wasn't sure at first that point in time last year

if it was gonna happen and I feel pretty good about it now

and they're moving.

And I like, you have to stop at some point, right?

There's a certain line where you say,

okay, it's good enough for V1 and we're gonna fix it later.

I mean, the iPhone 10 iterations later

is a very different product.

And I think they're trying to do an honest job

of getting something out there that's quality,

but hopefully they don't take it too far.

I mean, I want something nice,

but I'm not gonna be pissed if it doesn't have

all 84 features on the first version.

- All right, we're running long, so.

- I get that a lot.

- A lot of tangent, well, okay.

(both laughing)

- Well, we'll ignore the whole in the news segment,

which has quite a bit of stuff in it,

and we'll go on to the last topic that I have here,

and that is solving complex problems,

and I wanted to talk about that a little bit,

mainly because of our conversation this week,

regarding the project that you're working on.

And we don't have to go into details

of the problem specifically,

but I thought it was interesting as we kind of sat

and just kind of chatted about the problem from end to end.

And you were kind of beating your head against a wall

and trying to find a solution.

And then you kind of went through a,

or just kind of ran me through the problem.

And suddenly a pretty apparent solution came

from just doing that.

So I guess I kind of wanted to talk a little bit

through what are your techniques

for solving complex problems?

Or when you run into a wall, how do you solve those things?

Right, and I would say, I think most,

a lot of the technical folks that I've worked with

in the past, I think we have a natural tendency

to not ask.

We will go to Stack Overflow or go on Google

and engage in the search process,

but not often think the first thing or second thing

or even the fifth thing I should do is just go talk to the guy next door down the hall

for whatever reason. They're busy, I don't want to interrupt people, it's my problem,

I got to figure it out. I got to go through this crisis myself. And it was a good reminder

that that's not the best way to get to a solution, right? I think some of the other

things that I've done on my own involve even just like, I've talked to you about this before,

if I'm struggling with something,

whatever it is, a life decision, a code issue,

some software problem, work problem,

I think about it before I go to sleep.

And a lot of times, like I'll get that going

while I fall asleep.

And then I've, many times I've woken up

in the shower having coffee and then it hits me,

like this is what I should do or the solution

is easier to arrive at in the morning.

That works a lot.

I mean, I've done that many times.

- So in that case, that's kind of almost like a step away.

Like you're thinking about it,

but you're also taking like a step away from the problem,

kind of getting away from it and then returning to it.

And then you kind of come up with a solution

after a break in this case, sleep.

Right, get away from it.

Because I think that's it.

In the case that we were talking about yesterday,

what happened was a similar thing.

Like the focus was just, it was very circular,

like very narrow field of focus on this problem.

And it's like, well, there's only so many ways

this can be solved.

And like, well, how can I force this way

and that way is not working?

And we talked about it and it was like,

know, there's something way over here that we weren't even thinking about.

That happened to be the right solution and it worked.

And it happened to be a very simple solution, like almost to the point of like,

other people were walking up and I was like, Hey, double check me on this.

Cause this seems absurdly simple, right?

But for whatever reason, like you were just kind of in that, like,

I'm going to ram this solution home, right?



Like a very narrow field of vision.

And for some reason you just couldn't see the wider picture.


So I think the takeaway from that is to lean on other people more,

even if it seems like, well, they don't have experience in this area or

they're busy or I don't want to interrupt.

I think that saved my ass more times than I remember because I spend way too

much time alone trying to figure it out.

So the question would be then though, like what, at what point is that appropriate?

Like, so you've, you've now, you've, you've worked through it.

You've used Stack Overflow, you've exhausted Google, you've done this, you've

done that, like at what point is it now? Okay, I need to kind of resolve this. I can't resolve

it on my own or I need to bring this to another party or I need to use some other mechanism

right? I need to walk away and come back three hours later.

Well, in this particular case, this was something I was struggling with for about a week and

I think that was way too long. I probably could have done it in the first few hours

or even after the first day, just been saying, Hey, run something by you have any thoughts

on how you would approach this or what I could look into and what I could do. Could have

to save a lot of time.

- I feel like even another solution too,

like I do this with Christina a lot

as I'll start telling her the problem

and even just like relaying the problem to her,

she doesn't say anything,

but like relaying the problem to her,

like suddenly like in my mind,

like I have something clicks and I'm like,

oh fuck, I just figured out the problem on my own.

- Nice, yeah.

- So I find that to, I think I've done that with you

even before just kind of replaying the problem to you.

And then I'll be like, oh nevermind,

I know what the hell I'm doing.

- I feel like we both do that.

Yeah, well, I've gone into you before with issues

and then I just like thought of a solution.

You're like, good job.

- Go do it.


I've been on the other side of that.

Yeah, where people have come to me and all of a sudden,

it's like, oh yeah, I don't really need your help.

After all, I just need you to listen.

I got it.

- It's interesting.

Like it's almost like that does widen your field of vision

just because you're outputting what your problem is versus,

you know, just sitting there looking at it

and thinking like, oh, I can solve this on my own.

I don't know what creates that sudden realization.

I think this is more of a novice piece, but I think it's important too, is that like maybe

with less experience or earlier on, like things that I got tripped up in was not simplifying

the problem set.

So there maybe like seemed like the problem wasn't atomic.

Not breaking it down into logical steps.

That's right.


And it's like, well, I got to get this endpoint working, but I didn't, you know, maybe if you

looked at that, it's like, well, there's multiple pieces to this.

Like I need to solve the traffic part of it.

I need to solve the data format issue or whatever.

And that might be a few steps, two or three steps.

And it's like, okay, well, I don't know that one, but I can get this one to work.

Then kind of gain momentum.

If you, if you approach a big problem like this or that you've, you've run into a

problem that's, you can't solve like things that you try and do any other

ones that we haven't mentioned.

Um, I, I don't know.

I usually talk to other people.

I don't know, I'm still pretty early on in my career

where if I go to you guys with an issue that I have,

usually you're just like, "Well, do this."

And I usually get around it.


- I think that's an interesting perspective though.

Maybe it's a product of experience, right?

Like now you're hard headed.

I should know how to fix this

versus somebody who's newer and more willing

to go and ask for help.

- I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's huge.

- Yeah, we a lot of times carry the burden

on our shoulders or feel like in order to be good,

we gotta figure it out.

- Right.

- And it wastes a lot of time.

- Yeah.

- Don't have that ego.

- Somewhat to my advantage too,

'cause like I definitely the youngest person here

by like half a decade at least.

So it's easier.

I feel like it's easier for me to go to people

and ask them questions,

because then, I don't know, maybe they just assume

that I'm still rookie, I need help, or I don't know.

- No, I don't think that at all.

I think it's, on the receiving end of it,

I like being available to help.

And so I think maybe keeping that in mind too,

it's like, well, other people want that opportunity.

- Yeah, and I think in the same thing,

like collaboration I think is usually enjoyable.

A lot of engineers wanna stay in kind of a silo,

but I enjoy collaborating with somebody on a project,

so it doesn't bother me at all,

but I think it's a good lesson to learn

from this experience is that, you know,

be feel free to ask or talk to other people,

even if you are a senior engineer

or whatever the case may be,

like you know, talk to other people,

talk through the problems, you know,

they may have experience that you're not leveraging.

- It's an intentional movement

because I think what happens a lot of times,

especially for us, but we're getting bigger now,

as a smaller company largely. What happens is that you've got a bunch of

siloed people and so it's really easy to go days or even a few weeks without even

going to some of the teammates, seeing anybody, talking to anybody and so it's

easy to kind of get form-bad habits that way. Say well we work this way every day

so this is how I have to solve problems every day too is not talk to people and

just put my headphones on or whatever. Yeah. It's a good point. It's a good one.

I'm glad you brought that up. That was a good one. It really hadn't occurred to me

is just that, you know, like I said with Christina just talking through the problem

and then all of a sudden snap there it is, or in this case just talking through the

problem and something else comes up. Like I do that more than I guess I realize.

Yeah. Whether it's you or whether it's the IT folks or Joseph or Christina, it

doesn't matter. It just seems like I kind of, I use that as a crutch. Maybe it's not a crutch,

maybe it's a benefit.