12: Close to the Metal

And the raspiness is just because I killed myself on the treadmill. So we'll have to deal with that. Well, the smokers cough cigars Yeah, that's right That's how I train is that I smoke while I'm running and then that way when I go to race time I just don't and then I can breathe. Oh damn man. That's that's hardcore You might be you might be onto something there Check that out in the next edition of runners world Courtesy of yours truly here On the topic of feedback, I know we don't have crazy abundance of time here But I just got some feedback from our number one listener Simon right now live on the show. He doesn't even know we're recording right now He said loving the podcast listening to the latest episode Well, yeah, I just the latest episode at the 48 minute 20 second mark yet That's how Kyle that across with the tea is not a word. It's across no tea. Oh man I'm getting grammatical critique now the English man of which I originate cringes and thanks for the shout out in episode 10 oh Man like I have to work on my speech and now I have to work on my Fucking shit the fuck first. It was the fucking ums and now it's this. Oh, this is getting way too complicated And I'm supposed to listen to what you're saying so I can say so I just like becoming way too complicated here I agree. I don't know that I can handle and pull all this together Mother the demands are listeners. God damn it. I first just started out We were just gonna say some shit and we didn't even care if it was 510 minutes We thought maybe we'll do a 25 30 minute podcast now it it's gotta be now We've got an hour and we haven't even gotten to our primary topic [Laughs] [Music] It's all good. You're excited to get talking. Yeah, well, I'll tell you what, I wasn't excited to get talking. 30 minutes ago, I just been this week's been a stressful week for me on a number of fronts, but I'm not going to whine about it. But yeah, I was I was struggling a bit earlier just because I've got a lot to do in a short amount of time. I'm driving up to Sacramento tomorrow for an impromptu meeting with the team up there. and was trying to prepare for some stuff and have a few other things going on. And so I don't know why I forget this, but I used to always just take it out on the trail back in the day, right? Like whenever I ran semi, I ran in college. I think I mentioned that in a previous episode, but I ran for a few years at the collegiate level, NCAA Division 1 running. And so Used to go out for a lot of long miles all the time and it was a good Way to clear the mind not to mention I could drink a 12 back of beer on a Friday night and nothing would happen, but So yeah, so anyway, I'm rambling but I went on the treadmill and I didn't have a lot of time So I went out and just ran a fast two mile for me Which is really slow now, but I went out there and just cranked it out and now I can barely talk Whoo, it's a good tool for for stress relief and the problem with it for me And I think this is probably more common is that when I need it. I don't want to do it So this was a rarity for me when I said fuck it. I'm gonna do it anyway even though I don't want to and oh I don't have a lot of time. I just don't think I could have showed up in a meaningful way on the show if I didn't burn off some steam So threw on my Metallica playlist and some AC/DC and Pantera later feeling reborn again man ready to do it. Excellent speaking of doing some work today I have you ever had one of these scenarios where you do a whole bunch of shit you think it's pretty amazing you know you think you've done something pretty pretty monumental achievement and then it gets deployed and suddenly it gets ripped back out or somebody finds a major fault with it that you weren't We're not anticipating or weren't aware of. I'm sorry that happened today. Just a couple times. Just once. Yeah, I mean I had to effectively replace an entire feature that I had deployed and thought would give like a 300% speed performance improvement. But it was just a dumbass oversight on my part. I misunderstood a little bit of how something worked and because of that poor assumption, the whole thing was kind of half baked from the beginning, unfortunately. Luckily for me, I don't work in an area that is an easy way for the company to lose a lot of money. So the problem itself, although it caused certain people, maybe some frustration, it didn't necessarily lose tons of dollars and cents, at least not visibly. That's not uncommon. Well, we do work at the same place, so that's probably not a coincidence. But part of my frustration was boiling over from last week in a similar thing, but it was a little different, where we had one side of the team had discussed a feature that we wanted to release quickly. And so we put a lot of effort towards it to the tune of a few weeks. A good sprint, worth of work. And then when the other team found out about it, they had a different understanding. And so we had to rip it out. And then we ripped it out and then after some more business discussions, they decided to put it back in. So we had to put it back in. I'm kind of in the same boat, I think. The problem is fixable, luckily. Effectively, what I did is because I built it with interfaces and so forth, I was able to just implement a new interface that's effectively a no operation interface. And I'll just come back around and tackle it the correct way this time. So it isn't the end of the world, but it was frustrating that something so simple that I kind of had made an assumption on was an incorrect assumption and that was frustrating to me today. Yeah, that's understandable. That's, I would say I spend way too much time developing stuff that isn't, how do I say? Like it's more, we operate on the fly a lot more and I'm not saying that was entirely the case there, but it sounds like maybe just because the requirements weren't crystal clear the system wasn't clearly understood, that that's kind of the side effect of what happens, right? We get down a path and realize new information is discovered and oh boy, now we got a backtrack or rip out or redo and. - Yeah, I think that was the case here. Just a misunderstanding of one component led to kind of the whole thing just being unusable, which is unfortunate, but I'll take care of it. - Yeah, for sure. - In other news, something kind of cool. I know this has happened to you a number of times already, but a buddy of mine actually reached out to me this week and was asking questions regarding what type of mics we use, what software we use, and was interested in starting up, possibly his own podcast, dealing with some stories and stuff like that. Now, that got me really excited 'cause I was kind of thinking to myself, if this podcast goes nowhere else, but a personal project for us to speak better and all those things that we've already talked about. It's already brought a number of people forward who want to do this type of thing, but maybe didn't have or didn't feel they could. And I think that's pretty exciting alone that it's kind of empowering other people to move forward with things that maybe they've wanted to do for a while. Yep, I had that this week too. It was a different one. It was, I didn't tell you about this, but when I put that video out last week, I heard from one of my high school classmates who shared a similar piece about how she had wanted to do a blog and was, I think, if nothing else, like seeing us doing this was kind of a trigger to say, "Oh yeah, I still wanna do that, I should do it." And I just reached back and said, "Hey, like when you do it, send me the link, I wanna listen to it." Or I wanna read it, I wanna check it out. And so I think that's pretty cool to see people talking about that and hopefully taking some action on it. Get the fuck out there and do it, people. Put some content out. Distribute. I was just listening to Gary Vee again talk about it today. The people are too hung up on the art of the project and not enough on distribution. You gotta distribute. Distribution should be just as much a priority as the art of the content, if you will. Right, what was his saying is just like publish before polish or something like that, right? Yeah. And I think that's very true. I think if you go back and listen to our early episodes, they are definitely not polished and we published them anyway. So yeah, I think if we would have waited to polish, we wouldn't be on number 12 right now, we would probably still be talking about number one and maybe on our third or fourth revision. Yeah, re-recording it for the eighth time. Well, I'll tell you what. I'm guilty of this as well. I was talking about a possible project that I was interested in, a more of a personal project that I'd like to do this year. And that was more of a vlog, blog kind of a thing. I think I'd like to do both, have some articles, and then do some video blogging. And we've made some pretty serious changes to the lighting, and you've helped me a lot, get my video looking better. And so I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna publish the first one. (laughing) I'm guilty of the same shit that I'm preaching by them. But that's what happens when you get hung up on it. I should have just published it then before I knew any better. And then I could say, oh, well, I've learned a few things and now I'm gonna make it better. - Yeah, I think, well, and I think you've had very rapid improvement, obviously. I mean, that video was only made two weeks ago or something like that and you've already improved so much to the point where you don't even want to publish the first one. So pretty rapid increase. And I think that's probably pretty par for the course, especially early on. And then I think things kind of level out as you get things figured out and organized and so forth. I think that's right. All right. Uh, follow up and show news. We already talked about garbled audio a little bit here. We're moving to Skype or this, this episode is being recorded on Skype. So hopefully barring any kind of audio clipping. We have some pretty solid audio here that we can use without any garbling, which should be there shouldn't be any of that considering it's not going out over the wire like it was before well technically we're not recording on Skype we're just listening to each other that's right Skype is just the connectivity between the two of us and then we're recording directly off our mics on each computer i don't know if i'm repeating myself already but i mentioned too i'm doing this from my new xps 13 i don't believe you did say that uh are you doing it from the window side or the max side? Definitely Windows side. I don't think the max side has been tweaked enough for that to be good enough, but maybe in a future episode. There you go. Yeah. So one of the things I wanted to talk about and I kind of did a little bit of thinking about this over the week here is what What really is the coffee codecast? What is this show actually? It started out obviously as our project to speak and all those things that we've talked about a million times. And initially, obviously we kind of featured it around technology and technology products and those sorts of things and we still do. Another thing I think that we throw in there a lot is personal projects or personal aspirations or in this case, I wrote down personal development stories. So I was just kind of looking to see what you felt, like what is the coffee codecast? 'Cause even though it has the word code in it, I mean, again, that's kind of an homage to our early roots to this thing is that that was what we would do and we would go meet up in the coffee shops and those sorts of things. So the lack of code in this doesn't bother me so much, but I don't feel like we really have a good grasp on what it is the show is. And I, to me, I guess if I was to distill it down to two things, I would say technology and personal development. Yeah, I think that's probably accurate. I, I think that the question for me is if we're, it depends on the, the goal. I think that from a marketing point of view, it's somewhat misleading to say coffee and code. I think it's a detractor for some people, like for people that maybe would see that and be intimidated or uninterested because maybe they're not interested at that level and it sounds very technical because I don't think we really are. I think we can get into the weeds a little bit on the show, but for the most part it's very light hearted and it's more high level tech happenings. I agree with you. It's tech related and it is personal development. We talk about software development, but we also are talking about our own personal development as well. So I think there's a bit of a disconnect from me. What I'm trying to say there is like the branding is somewhat disconnected I think from what the show actually is. And we don't talk about coffee really. Sometimes I drink it, but I haven't in a while on the show. - Right, I mean, we do when we get some beans from our listeners or something like that, but beyond that, yeah, we don't talk about it a lot, I agree. And maybe that's something we'll have to address. But I guess what I was trying to get out here is that I think what these first, what 11 shows or have shown is that I think the things that we're probably the most passionate about or like talking about the most are probably technology related, whatever that may be. I think that's a pretty broad category, but technology and I think personal development stories, whether it be what we wanna get better at or what we think is applicable to other folks the tech area that can help them develop or those sorts of things. I think those are the things clearly that are interesting to us because that's what we keep talking about. I think it's relevant because we're talking that other piece is talking about our experience and there's some it's less factual, it's more about our trials and tribulations if you will. I think it's more vulnerable and I think that that's where we've reached people. That's what's been exciting about it for me. I haven't had a lot of feedback saying, "Well, there's been some feedback saying, like, 'Oh, hey, like, I'm interested in this computer now because you guys talked about it,' or, 'I want to get that product because it sounds interesting.'" Like, there's some of that, but it's more rewarding for me when I have those conversations with people online or in person that are like, "Yeah, I really want to do the same thing that you're doing, or I've talked about it and put it off, but I really want to get back at it again." And I think that because of the personal dimension we're able to have those types of conversations and I think that's really the substance to the show. The other stuff is that keeps you listening too, but I like having the personal side. I think that's almost more important. I think I would agree with that. And I think it's inspiring like we talked about earlier when somebody messages you or gives you a post on Facebook or whatever it may be that says, "Hey, I want to do that," like you you said or hey I'm gonna get started back into doing that or whatever the case may be I think that's something that's very inspiring and it gets me pumped up to do more of these. Let's move on to some feedback shall we? We got a lot of feedback this week. Good feedback this week, yep. I like it. So I'll just start off here. Dave on Facebook writes, "Coffee code cast here's all you need to use Phillips Hue inset bulbs" sorry Phillips Hue inset bulbs in your ceiling converts a 24 2 prong into standard screw-in sockets and he links to an Amazon product which is just a conversion to from what is it GU 24 to a standard kind of what you would think of an incandescent bulb socket. I had found these as a matter of fact already and I thought about using them however in my particular scenario these were can lights that were in the ceiling they were recessed. So even that, I don't know, maybe they were an inch, inch and a half of height or something like that that it would add, it would make the can lights stick out further already than they already were. So that was kind of a non starter for me because it looked really, really goofy. But I was aware of that product. And yeah, if anybody else has that particular problem, there is an adapter available for that. Yeah, I'm glad that Dave put that out there because It's an odd fixture, but it's something that's becoming more common, I think, because of lead certification, energy efficiency standards. And because that's typically what you're seeing in some of those new cans and the new construction, right? Is it not like those LED bulbs that have that two-prong adapter? Yeah, I think the reasoning for it is that you can't, you physically can't, unless you put put an adapter, put a inefficient bulb in those sockets. One of those old incandescence. Right. Or the Edison style bulbs that are really cool looking that just suck your energy. Yeah, exactly. [LAUGHS] I love the Edison bulb. They do look cool. I definitely agree. And they put off a nice quality of light. And they're very like a nice ambiance, right? Yep. Yeah, Dave had a lot to say this week. I was super stoked hearing from him, especially on the design front. He had another comment as well about our design, our dev toolbox roundup for design front end. And had some new insights for me. I suspected that Photoshop was probably an outdated tool and he confirmed that for us. Obviously, he's more of a designer than we are or has a lot more design experience than we do. 'Cause what do you say, five years ago, Photoshop has been dead for five years in terms of designer as far as designers go. So clearly that's-- - Dave's a UX guy. He's, well, he's worked for a lot of different companies, but he was at Amazon for a stint and then been more recently in the sports arena. Some pretty big players in sports websites, sports news, sort of thing. Okay. He puts a pretty big shout out to Sketch in there which we kind of glazed over pretty quickly because I don't think either of us really had a ton of experience with it. Mentioned that that's been one of the bigger helpful tools in his toolkit. It's changed a lot. That's the one thing I'll say is that this is what's scary about being in the full stack and not being in all of it all the time because we talk about this where we're focusing on a project for three to six months, maybe in the middle tier or the back end or a hybrid of those working on APIs, for example, and then there's, we don't have a lot of new front-end projects. And so time goes by and like honestly, a lot of these tools I hadn't even heard of Sketch haven't used before. I'm starting a new mobile app project. It's a react-native project. It's more of a side project than working on and so I'm using Figma for that and so I spent about a week You know nice and weekends with it not a full week, but maybe 10 hours or so Doing some prototyping for for an iPhone app And that was really cool But that was the first time I had used Figma and then I looked at Zeppelin which Dave recommended and spoke pretty highly of and I Saw their website and I thought damn that's even cooler. I want to check that one out, too There's a lot of new tools for me if you've been in full stack or been but haven't been up on the latest particularly I think mobile development and that's where a lot of these tools shine too but it's certainly for web front-end development. It's worth taking some time to check these things out because it's a lot different than the way we used to do things. Yeah I think UI design and both desktop and mobile like you said has been and is a highly volatile industry at this, you know, at this point in time, it's like you said, it changes really, really rapidly, even from the time that you got out of the business for a few years, what was that five years, maybe something like that, and then got back in like you, I remember you being very lost with the technologies that had transpired during that time. Oh huge, even that time just for that stint it went from pretty traditional CSS and cross browser support and shims which that never really has gone away but we didn't have some of the handier tools like lesson sass compilation at that time they're very new very early on and the browser support still wasn't as what it is today so that was a big jump and this this time, I don't even think it's been that long. It's been a few years and it's evolved again. It's exponential, it just keeps, the changes keep happening more quickly, shorter timeframe. - Yep, and now you have frameworks upon frameworks upon frameworks and the framework of the day and you have mobile involved now as well that you can develop using kind of traditional desktop, I guess what you might have thought of as desktop technologies back in the day. So yeah, your toolkit is expanding ever larger and what you need to know expands just as rapidly, which doesn't seem to be the case quite as much for backend coders. I mean, that's still pretty traditional. You do get some features here and there through kind of some of the cloud providers and maybe frameworks come out with new additions and that sort of thing. But generally speaking, they're kind of doing all the same things that they've always done. So it's definitely evolving quickly on the front end. I Have a comment about that, but I don't think we want to take up a bunch of time with it right now But I don't know I want to throw it out there and then maybe you can slice it and dice it do it Okay, do it Well, it's on that note because of the rapid changes that happen and what you just described I Have a very strong opinion and I'd like you to shoot it down and maybe it would be easy maybe you already feel like don't feel this way but What is your take on using? like rapid application development tools or shortcuts or I don't even know how the hell you like would classify it IntelliSense like that sort of thing I'm kind of setting I'm kind of baiting you so let me just like throw my two cents out there and then we can talk about it I think because of all of the layers on layers like I tend to be more purist and I'm doing this react native project. That's fine. I'm not saying that it has to be done in vanilla JavaScript But I don't want the editor to fill in all the blanks for me. Like I want to type it out. I want to know what the commands are I Don't want to lean on On an editor to do that. I'll tell you another example when I Started using get and I switched from SVN to get I made a conscious decision I remember you gave me some shit about this actually. This is good. This'll be a good conversation about going command line. And I started the command line. I've been using it now for a little over two years. And it's really, my skill has grown tremendously with Git and doing things in Git that like other people don't know how to do in the command line will ask me, hey, how do you do this? Or how do you handle this scenario? And to me, I feel like getting closer to the raw metal is where I wanna be. I don't wanna be writing code in assembly, so I don't wanna take it to an extreme, but I do think that there's value in not having all these tools do it for you. Like being so far removed now that you don't really know what the hell's going on. And so, I don't know, that's kind of what my thought was. Oh boy, okay. Let's start on the git topic. (laughs) I don't know where to start in that whole question. So let's start with the git topic. Do you want me to redo it or rephrase it? I mean, or we can, I don't know. - No, I like it. I think it's good. I think it's a good subject. And even if we chop it out, it'd be a good subject for another show and we can just shorten up our recording time. So let's start with the good topic. So Git, I was actually the one that led the charge to use Git at the company that we're at currently. At the time, I advised most folks to use a GUI for their Git work, primarily just for ease of use. Coming from SVN, Git is a different paradigm and it was very hard for people to understand, let alone comprehend what kind of command line commands that they would have to enter in. I didn't even want to have to start dealing with that. So I recommended Source Tree at the time. I still use Source Tree to this day. And the reason behind that is primarily just because I can do shit faster. I still know how to use a lot of the Git commands. I wouldn't say I'm any kind of expert. I'm sure you could probably run circles around me in terms of Git commands, but I do know the primary Git commands when needed. Or I have a cheat sheet on my desk if I need it. I mean, I'm not afraid of Git command line. I just feel that it's pretty inefficient for my workflow. - Yeah, and that's what I'm interested in talking about a little bit more is that to me, I feel less restricted using an ID sometimes. - I mean, I would agree with that. I think there's more power in the command, actually I know there's more power in the command line. The problem for me comes in there is that even though the power is available, I don't tend to need to use those powerful functions for everyday committing and updating and fetching and those sorts of operations that you do on a day to day basis. Like it's one click and I'm done or it's just enter my text in and I'm done. Well, you know, or if I wanna stage all my files, I can just, or stage one, let's even say stage one file, for instance, is a good example. If I wanna stage one file out of a set of 15, all I have to do is select that file and say stage. If I have to go to get command line, I have to type that whole fucking file name in. And if you have a deep folder structure, that sucks balls. - Well, you don't have to type it all in though. That's the thing I'm saying. - Oh, you just have to hit tab 15 times. - Yes. - Bullshit. Well, but that's, I think that's a legitimate part of the debate though, is that I think if you are proficient in both, that the time difference is probably negligible. It might be, it's more just an annoyance for me. Like, I would rather be doing the things that are important, which would be writing code, than managing my source control. And if I can manage my source control in a quick way, something that's much, much faster for me, then that's the route I'm going to take. and then when I need to use power tools, I'll jump back to the command line and execute commands that are necessary at that point. Well, I think that's my argument, my counterpoint is that I don't think, you're saying that it's quicker that you wanna focus on the problem and not the tool, and I'm saying that if you have a level of proficiency in the tool, that I don't think there's much of a time difference. I'm gonna have to argue that. I'm gonna say if I wanna, If you put me up against, if you put source tree up against you in a git command line and you say here, check in this one particular file, I'm gonna make two clicks and it's gonna be done. That's one example. I could find others that would be quicker. Possibly. Pulling, fetching, doing diffs. Git pull, the reference command to that is one click. Yeah, and for me it'd be GFA, which is like I can do that as quick as a click. Yeah, but see here, now you're kind of compounding the problem here because you've got these other commands that are not the native Git command, so you've stacked something on top, right? Well, I know what it is, though. I know what the command is. I could type it out long here. So now, yeah, but yeah, but I mean, if you want to say apples to apples, right, don't you have to compare, just straight up Git command line to source tree? No, no, I'm just comparing the tools. Like if you could do that, and if you could find a way to create a macro in source tree, I think that would be like permissible. Gotcha. It's a debate that doesn't have a right answer, right? But I do, I think it's, this is a contentious, this is like a philosophical slash, we're getting into religion now on our podcast. - I mean, it is for the command line guys, command line guys hold on to that, like it's gold. And really, I don't give a fuck. Like I could switch to command line tomorrow and I would do it. I mean, I think it's less efficient for me, but I would do it, I don't care. It really doesn't matter. But I know command line guys are nerd out on that shit. and it's a very, very major thing to them. - I'll give you another example. Okay, so we're gonna have a stalemate here on the command line versus source tree debate versus the GUI, but I think another example comes down to writing code. Yeah, you can do some nice shortcuts. Like I've seen the guys on SQL Server Management Studio type in three letters and get a 20 line SQL statement auto-generated for them, but give them a marker on a whiteboard or ask them to get in front of a computer and do a simple select statement on a table and they're gonna scratch their head and say, well, I don't know how to do the right join or I don't know how to do a union or these things because I don't have my shortcut to get it done. And I have a problem with that. - Yeah, so here I will agree with you in this scenario and here's why. I've been recently trying to sharpen some skills and do some things that I've not really ever had doing my career and primarily that would be learning algorithms. Algorithms really aren't something that traditionally I've ever had to worry about. Those are kind of generally abstracted away and I've never had anything that had to be like so performant that I needed to know some magic algorithm to sort or search things super crazy efficient. So I've been learning those things and to do that you can use a number of different websites give you quizzes, hack a rank would be one of them. And as I go through those, I find myself constantly struggling with really simple things like if you want to write out to the console, for instance console.writeLine, like I'll not capitalize one of the words or you know something to that effect, something very very simple that in the IDE you would never notice or you would or you would notice immediately I guess because it would give you some notification of a syntax error. But when you have no helper, it's pretty insane how quickly your confidence in your coding skill kind of crumbles. But at the same token, I know many other languages don't have these things. A lot of people write in Vim for fuck's sake, so they get no help of any kind. Yeah, that's right. I edit in Vim. I don't really code in Vim because that would slow me down. I just haven't been proficient enough. Like I haven't had enough lunches at my desk with Learn Vim and 24 lunches that are in the bucket is to, or the interest. I like little snippets of things, but I haven't gone that far down the rabbit hole. - What I would say is I have definitely played with the idea of dropping back to using say, even Visual Studio Code, for instance, which is a, it's still an IDE, it still has some IntelliSense and some other fancy gizmos and gadgets, But even working in that as opposed to Visual Studio, which is obviously the big Microsoft IDE, is quite a step back. Yeah. And makes you have to address things quite a bit differently or think about things quite a bit more before you plunge into them, because all the plumbing isn't magically there for you somehow. That's right. Yeah, and I'll give a third example around this that I think is a little different, but it's similar. The new laptop that I have here, when I got the XPS 13 setup, the first thought of mine was maybe I should just create an image so that, you know, magically I'll never have to, like, uninstall and reinstall and do all the configuring the way I want it. Like, for example, to get my get command line setup, I have a repository that I fetch and I have to generate an RSA token to be be able to get access to that repository from the command line and register it. And there's a number of things, right? And I consciously made the choice not to image or try to capture all those steps automatically because I took an interesting course a year ago on Coursera called Learning How to Learn. And it's about the way that our brain works and the way that we store information and repetition. I think this is pretty commonly known. And there's lots of other gems in the course that I recommend, but repetition is so crucial to learning, like to long term memory storage. And so for that reason, I like doing a project maybe every three months where I'm rebuilding a machine, where I'm resetting up the IDE, going back in and downloading the repos. For me, it's making it more of a permanent memory thing instead of just saying, well, it's a task I could automate and I could save time. Like I'll probably spend a couple hours more doing it, but I'm gaining that long term memory. And to me, that's valuable. Like I value that over my time, like 'cause I'm gonna be able to retain something. - Well, and I would say even the amount of time saved by automating that for just one instance, in other words, for just yourself, as opposed to say a company or something like that is probably pretty negligible. Like you've probably put more time into creating the code that actually makes this thing automatically come up as an image than you did to set it up three times or something like that, right? So it probably doesn't break even for quite a while. And at that point, it probably is irrelevant, right? The windows has moved on or Mac has moved on or something in the processes changed that it no longer works. And now you have to debug it. So it's probably more of a pain in the ass really than it's worth. At least that would be my kind of 4,000 foot view. - Well, that's true. I think it's kind of an edge case, silly example thing 'cause it's not necessarily about time savings. It's really about, for me, that is the common thread with the examples though. For me, it's more about repetition and getting more reps in doing the things that are important to learn, I think is more valuable than finding shortcuts to solving a problem. Like we're always gonna be solving a problem somewhere. And I think it's over the long haul, it's more valuable to have a foundational knowledge base that can translate across industries because I mean, I jumped industries many times. I'll be in different industries again. And I think like, you know, my knowledge, having the knowledge of manufacturing is less valuable to me now because I'm not in manufacturing anymore. And my knowledge in healthcare, not so much and how to solve those problems, but knowing how to build those solutions is universally. - Right, and I think where you would see this not so much switching industries, it would be switching companies within the tech sector, and especially ones that rely on other languages. So in the example I gave earlier, if you worked for the company that my wife works for, you would now be learning C++ and Python, which you could write in Visual Studio. I believe they support that now, but no other companies on the face of this earth other than Microsoft, as a general statement, would use Visual Studio. As a matter of fact, they would look down on it and they would frown upon it. So you're using a very powerful IDE, but it's a huge crutch and it's actually creating creating some sort of a disadvantage to you if you don't continue to learn how to do those things that it performs for you at some level, which is why I feel like to me the git argument doesn't really hold up because I'm learning the git commands. I don't use them 24 hours a day. I use SourceTree to automate some of that, but I still actively work on what's underneath the covers. So I could move those skills on to any kind of other company which uses Git, you know, and any company that uses Git either uses the command line and or the GUI, and they're not going to care. In the case of Visual Studio, like I said, nobody else uses it other than Microsoft land. So if that's all you know, that's going to become a problem when you you get to some other company. Even Visual Studio Code is still a bit of a crutch. So I mean, just editing in a straight up text editor would be probably the ideal situation, but that comes with its own hurdles as well. But I agree with you. I think knowing the underlying everything, I remember you telling me this, I remember you giving me a shit about this a long, long time ago back in Nebraska when Jake Wury was available. And we were doing some talking about using Ajax back in the day. And I remember us having a fairly deep argument about what's actually happening under the covers and you wanted to know exactly what was happening under JQuery's Ajax call and before you used it and we just had a big argument about that and the same kind of rule applies, right? You wanna know what the vanilla script under the covers of JQuery was. You didn't just wanna borrow their library and say, "Well, whatever, I don't care what it does." I think what I ultimately want is to be pragmatic about that approach because there can be a slippery slope there, right? I could spend so much time trying to understand the underlying thing that it doesn't fucking matter at some point because the deadline was two weeks ago. But the other part of it is though, like just be finding a healthy balance of I think what you see on the other side the other extreme is developers latch on to shit just because Oh, everybody's talking about it and it's quick and it's supposed to be really fast, but they don't know what the fuck's going on, right? It's just like, well, when I look at the repository on Git, it has 5,000 stars and 154, so it must be fucking good. And I'm gonna put it on this production system and I don't know, like I just think that there is a middle ground, which is understanding enough of what's going on to make an educated decision when it comes to using the framework, for example. And not always is jQuery the best tool for the job. Sometimes like vanilla JavaScript would be much more appropriate or faster or whatever. Maybe not as much anymore, 'cause it's been pretty well optimized, but sometimes it's not, the framework isn't always the right way to go, right? - Yep, and I think another thing that you just kind of touched on there was, I feel like there's a, I don't know, and over abundance of frameworks at this point, not only in the front end space, but effectively you're stacking frameworks on top of frameworks, on top of frameworks. And to your point, nobody really knows what's happening on some of those underlying frameworks, and they just kind of get forgotten about. And I think there's a problem there, and that's why you see some of these companies coming up and they'll say, well, I'm not gonna rely on a framework, I'm gonna write my own code, I'm gonna know exactly what this code is doing, It's gonna be efficient because I wrote it to do this very specific thing, but you also lose kind of the group, the herd mentality a little bit there. You don't get the many, many eyeballs on the solution. So there's something to be lost to there, but there's something to be gained. And I don't know if there's a happy medium in there somewhere and I totally get what you're getting at. I just, I don't know exactly where that common ground is. Well, I had an idea when you were just saying that, when you were just making that statement, like, and I think I can concede a little bit because it's not about putting vanilla JavaScript against a framework necessarily. I think that if you're a strong developer and you're experienced that you're going to know how vanilla JavaScript works really well, you're gonna understand how it works on a deeper level than just writing something to the console, right? I mean, you're gonna have some pretty good understanding of the fundamentals of the language, some, you know, some Crockford shit right over, like, you know, like getting a little more advanced with it. And then if you wanna use the tool, I think you're probably more informed to know, like, hey, this is good enough for what I need, right tool for the job, but I'm also able to know a little bit more. And I think maybe that's the happy medium is that we're always learning, we're always trying to understand like what's going on. And maybe this new project that has a short deadline for MVP isn't the time to learn it all, but that's why we need to have time outside of work or time after for side project or other learning to supplement that knowledge base. - I think that sums it up pretty nicely. And I think one other note that I think I would make here is I think we're dating ourselves with jQuery references because I don't think anybody uses that shit anymore. I think it's all vanilla script, vanilla script or some sort of framework like React or view. TypeScript. Yep, TypeScript is another, I don't know if you, that wouldn't be your framework per se, but yeah. Basically, jQuery I think is frowned upon at this point 'cause I think most of the things that jQuery was built to do, the vanilla script now can kind of do universally. It's been pretty well adopted these days. So jQuery was kind of a way to meld all these different standards or different ways of implementing the standards. And I think those have kind of went away now. So I think you're pretty safe usually to go ahead and code in vanilla script. Yeah, good point. Yeah, that wasn't exactly, I think we were going back to our roots a little bit there. Like I wasn't exactly advocating for that, (laughing) for those technologies, but I think it makes, it sets the stage for the argument anyway, and you can replace that with- Whatever framework, right? Right, exactly. I like it. Well, that was fun. I know that we weren't planning on going down that path, but once we started talking about old school photoshop and ways to do things with the new tools, it got me thinking about this kind of philosophical debate that we've had over the years about what do you want to call it? What we just talked about, about getting to the-- Like you said, being close to the metal, right? That's what you kind of were getting at. And you've kind of always been that way. You've always kind of wanted to know what's under the covers, I guess, before you just threw something on top of it and said, oh, I'll use that. I mean, you've kind of always been that way ever since I've known you. So you're always a curious guy. Yeah. Yeah, and I like to argue too. So I have to try to find counterpoints to whatever the fuck it is you're up to just so we can have something to talk about, make it a little interesting. Well, I'm the non-- what would be the word? I'm the non-confrontational one. So. (laughing) I just have a lot of bark, not a lot of bite, man. (laughing) All right, well, let's get back to the feedback here because we got one more piece of feedback here and that is Pat on Twitter wrote, "Getting in the zone, only one thing matters, "being excited about the work. "When I'm not excited, then I start to care about "Bevergys, chairs, noisy coworkers, et cetera." That is fucking Pat. Like there's no question, thank you Pat for putting that out there. There's like no question that that was a pat lay he answer at its best right there like this Which I love it. It's a different perspective. I can't disagree with them at all. No, I don't disagree with him either He's right when when I'm when I'm like hyper focused or really excited about something like that's the only thing I want to deal with I don't want to get up to get water Deal with any of the other shit like yeah, I'll have my tunes on and I'll be jamming and I hope nobody bothers me But yeah, that's the only thing that I'm worried about and I want to like get that feature done because like once that thing's done that's gonna be amazing right so that's the only thing I'm focused on yeah yeah I think the only thing I would say to it is like my point of view on it wasn't like what do you need to get you motivated it was more like what do you do that's even subconscious like I come in and I like to have it dark in the room and I like to just get my and yeah on that whatever the fuck I don't know that's not me I'm just saying man nothing nothing and out there's anything wrong with that. You turn on your ambiance lights there that you got and you turn on your, yeah, your Enya. Maybe you turn on your little, what the hell are those things? Like little fog machines that put out some sort of like a potpourri smell and stuff, you know, whatever you gotta do. Right. No, so, you know, that was what I was trying to get at. I was like, where are the things that just happened that really get you in your most comfortable place? But I understand and agree with that perspective too. I mean, it's kind of like growing up, playing sports, and you get a group of kids who have to have like the fanciest, coolest new shit and like $100 fucking shoe, all that stuff. And then you got somebody out there who doesn't have that luxury or doesn't even give a fuck. Like he's wearing, you know, he's just wearing regular running shoes and beating the shit out of people on the field, you know? So I think it's not necessarily that the tool is what's necessary to be good at the job to get you that edge but so I agree with that it was more of a question of just like how do you I don't know how do you get into your how do you like to do your craft right yep and to each yeah to each their own I think that's a good example the the the player that doesn't have all the top gear or whatever that maybe is out there in a ragged t-shirt and you know jean shorts or something and some bullshit, right? But you know, they're having fun just as much as the next guy, even though their gear is subpar, which I think that's a pretty good way to describe it. But yeah, it's just the how I code saying hashtag how I dev, how I dev, yeah, hashtag how I dev. So that was cool to hear from him, because I have one more piece of feedback that I got to so that somebody else reached out to me, Dave reached out to me about an hour ago. And he said, "Ha! Dave says, 'Joseph the Satanist, yeah! PLU is proud.'" [laughter] Joseph's going to be excited to hear that. Spoken from a former graduate. Oh yeah, got on an alum, huh? That's right, yeah. So, yeah, that was pretty funny. Yeah, that's great. I'm happy to get all the feedback. really really cool that people are reaching out and and connecting on stuff that we're talking about that makes it a lot more fun. Well that about wraps up our feedback segment. Only 60 minutes later. Well to be fair it was really a feedback with I think it was a feedback with a segue into today's topic. That's fair. Now we're gonna now we're gonna get into the news. In the news what's in the news mic. Well, there is some cool shit happening in the news. I sounded really excited about that. There's some cool shit in the news. I don't know. In the news. I haven't been reading the news. I don't know. Like I got really amped up for CES and then now it's just kind of like, yeah. What's going on? Uber's Uber eats is up. I read that today. That was interesting. Uber eats is going to be the world's largest food delivery service. They just bought another company that makes their own food. Wow. I didn't hear that. I did see that Uber hired their first ever director of diversity. Oh, that's a good idea. I'm sorry. It's so necessary. It's just like-- it's like one of my reaction is, well, about fucking time, right? I mean, this is just crazy. Yeah. There were some pieces coming out last week, too, and more details about just the year that was not Ubers. And they were talking about some more of the behind-the-scenes stuff with Travis. And I remember last year when he was getting into a debate with the driver in downtown in the Bay one night. And the driver captured the video footage on his dash cam, and it went viral. And they were talking about that and how they were gonna try to handle it. Like they were all in a big meeting talking about their public image and how they needed to improve that. And as that was happening, they called Travis out of the meeting to play that video that was going viral at the same time. And like he got on his hands and knees and was just like, oh my God, like I'm bad. I got, we gotta fix this. What are we gonna fucking do? And they were gonna offer him like a couple hundred grand or something, but it didn't matter. It already got out. - Yeah, I don't know. I don't wanna get too far down the rabbit hole with them, but yeah, it's amazing. I mean, they're a huge company, obviously, but it's amazing how far, in terms of PR, that they've fallen in a short number of years, 'cause I definitely remember back in the days when, even before you started latching onto it, like I remember some buddies that I had in the area here that they would just sing the praises of Uber and thought it was the most amazing company on the world, and their customer service was great, and their cars were all amazing and clean, yada yada yada and it's just crazy how quickly that has all gone away. Well I'll go on the record saying that I believe in Uber and I think that having Dana come in is going to be a good thing. I know that one of our colleagues worked with him at Expedia and had saying his praises and so I think and the meeting that was happening before they pulled him out of of the meeting by the way was the board basically telling him that Uber's problem was him. So I think that a large part of the dysfunction, when you're an organization like that, any organization, it starts at the top, your leadership, it starts at the top and he wasn't doing a good job. I think a lot of their problems were absolutely tied to him. I think getting him out of there, they had to do it. I really think that there's some great people there. I think they're gonna have a good turnaround. They're doing the right things We'll be all right. Yeah, don't get me wrong. I don't think the company is dead by any stretch of the imagination I mean, they're a huge company. They're still making Still making strides and doing new projects that are cool and uber eats obviously is great I use it pretty pretty regularly not regularly, but I mean if I ordered that sort of thing. I definitely use them I think they're doing a lot of cool things. Like I said, it's just more of like If you thought of if you thought of back in the day the tech startup darlings that that we would have in the industry They were definitely one of them But if you were to ask that question today, I don't think anybody on the earth would answer that there are like some tech tech outstanding company that that people really love oh Clearly not I well, they're very I'll say they're convenient as fuck. I still use them all the time I think but yeah, like do I love the brand? No, like it's it's not a positive image right now And they've got a lot of cleanup to do But I think they will I think they're capable they have a good team They're putting in place and I think they'll turn it around and a lot of the shenanigans that they were getting away with before was coming Probably from the top two like that was a directive and I think that that's gone. So it's gonna look different. Yeah, I agree And you know what's gonna help you get those Uber rides is Is unlimited data from Google Fi Why? Well, I happen to be a Google Fi customer. That was smooth, man. You gotta give me props on that. That was a smooth transition. That was a smooth transition. That was like, let's get the fuck out of that one and then this one. Get out of my dreams and into my car. There you go, all right. Yeah, no, this is a good one. This is cool because I'm a subscriber. I'm not only the president, I'm a member. Project Fi. Yeah, they're trying to be competitive with some of the other guys because they had a pretty good deal in town $10 a gig no cap no contracts But that's not such a great deal anymore compared to some of the unlimited Family plans right with Verizon and T-Mobile and Everybody pretty much now. So yeah, this is an attempt. I think it's an attempt. It's not gonna affect me much I don't use this much data. So like the deal is if you go over What six gigs a month on an individual plan, then they'll cap it at 60 bucks and You can use as much data as you want Beyond that so you're not gonna pay more than 60 bucks if you're a family plan Depends on how many users like for me. I think the cap is 10 so I'm like our fit my wife and I would need to burn through 10 gigs at a hundred bucks before we'd be capped Which is still good. Yeah, I feel like this would be a great thing for like you said families specifically especially when you have like young kids who Just eat through data like crazy Yeah, when you're if you're doing a lot of video streaming on LTE it doesn't take much these days. I am very diligent about getting on Wi-Fi network and I still rack up I Can still burn through two or three gigs really without much effort. Do you? Do you set yourself up on a VPN when you connect to Wi-Fi networks? No, oh Tell me more. I'm well where where are you getting on your Wi-Fi? I want to come join and steal all your shit Yeah, I probably should make that investment I haven't done that yet. I've talked about it I just haven't pulled the trigger. So yeah, Starbucks AT&T hot spots Yeah, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on that I don't get on a ton of public Wi-Fi personally, but I did go ahead and get a three-year membership to Nord VPN Nord VPN. Yep, and you can use it on your phone and on your computers and then you know, whatever you can use it all over the place It's very easy. It's like one click. It'll connect you to the most the closest I guess data center or server that they have and then all your stuff's encrypted so definitely after the whole to buckle with the net neutrality business. I was like, yeah, time to pull the trigger. Well, I had more selfish motivations than security when I was in Germany and I wanted to watch the Cubs in the World series, then I hooked up my VPN and was able to watch a little MLB. Hypothetically. Yeah, I don't know how well that would work. I did just out of shits and giggles, I was like, yeah, let me try, I think I did try Germany. I think it was a German server and I connected to it from here Just to see how things went and I ran a speed test and it was pretty slow. So I don't know how well that would work But it'd be interesting. I don't know. It'd be interesting. I did it from there to the states. I was getting HDMI phone. It looked good. Wow, maybe Interesting, maybe it's a different connection point or path or whatever. I don't know but Yeah, I digress Yeah, but this is good. I'm glad that Google Fi is stepping in Because they've become less can less attractive The last year or two they haven't changed their service enough everybody else is scrambling to It's so competitive with the big guys Yeah, and Google hasn't done a whole lot to pivot the phones are great That's new but they haven't done a whole lot to the plan. So it's nice to see that change Yeah, I would say their competitive advantage is still the Roaming What would it be worldwide roaming basically? T-Mobile kind of has a similar thing similar product now as well. So the competition is starting to Come up in that area as well, but they still T-Mobile and them are still definitely the leaders in that area Yeah, I agree. It's slick Internationally everywhere I've been it's great. Love it All right. Well, let's move on to the next bit of news and that is Amazon HQ - we talked about this a little bit one other episode Yes, and they have now announced the top 20 finalists Both of my places are in the top 20. So I think I'm on to something. What do you mean both your places? Well, I had a couple of hot. I had a couple picks that I thought were More likely. I was already before they narrowed the field down. I already had a few spots in mind They're gonna go you put some money down put some money put a hundred down on Austin in Toronto Yeah, so they announced the top 20 And they are anywhere from Atlanta to Austin Boston Chicago Columbus, Ohio is a weird one Dallas Denver Indianapolis is kind of another oddball Los Angeles Miami Montgomery County Nashville Newark New York Northern Virginia Fiddle Adelphia Pittsburgh Raleigh, North Carolina, Toronto and Washington I'm not surprised by most of those. Yeah, there's a few a few outliers in there maybe, but I think they knew from the beginning anyway. They just wanted to see what kind of deal they're going to get. I mean, I think they had a pretty short list at least. It's interesting too, because this is starting to grab some probably more headlines than it did. I think it was a big deal in the tech community when they even announced that this was going to be a thing. But I think finally it's starting to make national news because even my mom message me this morning or maybe it's yesterday that wondering if I was concerned that Amazon was creating another headquarters somewhere else so she's even got caught wind of it and she doesn't really follow tech news so it's starting to become a more pressing story. Wow well it's a big of an investment of five billion dollars in development create up to fifty thousand jobs. What's interesting somebody how I didn't get the source on this dam and I need to find it but there was an interesting perspective on the 50,000 jobs things it's not going to hire 50,000 FTEs to work at their headquarters it's it's they they count headcount for like investment right like oh yeah well the construction workers that are building our facilities and it's going to bring a lot to the economy don't get me wrong but it's just interesting sometimes how it's spun because I don't know how how many people end up working there. Sure. Although if you look at Seattle, it started out really small and now they have, well, 100,000 people down here. Right, and that's what I told my mother when she asked about this, 'cause I was like, well, in my book, it's a play for employees, more than anything, because Seattle's being saturated with technical companies, so it's really hard to attract tech talent here. There's just so many people vying for the talent, not to say that Amazon's not a major player there. They obviously are and they obviously attract top talent, but if they can do it in another one of these cities, if you can go to Pittsburgh, not known as probably the biggest tech town in the world. So you might be able to come up with some more employees that are a little easier, not paying quite as much, yada, yada, yada. - I wondered about that. They probably will have better, I'm sure it'll be closer to the, what am I trying to say? I'm sure the prices will be competitive where they're at, but they're probably not gonna be what they are on the West Coast. I don't know. On the other hand, I don't know how many people are gonna move and take a huge cut either. I think some of these guys are used to making big bucks at the top end and maybe they can demand that price in Newark or Nashville. - You think they would relocate some of their employees from Seattle? I mean, if they asked for that, I'm sure they would, but. - No, I'm saying that people in Silicon Valley, for example, would maybe be attracted to a smaller market, like an Austin or an Asheville or something like that, because, but I don't know how much of a salary cut that they'd be willing to take. - Well, I think Austin in particular, I don't think they would take any cut. I think that's a pretty booming tech market. And I don't think the cost of living there is anything much different from here. - Oh, it's huge. Oh, the houses there are ridiculously cheap, man. It's because there's such a huge landmass. You can get a, it's not quite like Midwest, but it's, I don't even know. Maybe it's closer on part of Denver. It's still on sale though. Are you sure about this? Yeah, it's getting worse, but it's no Seattle or San Francisco. Cost of living monthly rent for 900 square foot furnished accommodation in an expensive area $1,800. This is curious as to what their prices look like because Austin, everything I've heard about them is a very expensive town. Wow that shocks me I don't think it's anything like we're used to. Maybe expensive for Texas. Monthly rent for a a 480 foot furnished studio in an expensive area is $1467. That is close. I swear that home prices there are still really affordable. Yeah, that could be, I don't know. They don't list home prices, but yeah. Basic lunchtime menu, including drink in the business district, 14 bucks. That's pretty comparable to here. Like here's an example, like this, I don't know all the neighborhoods there, but I just pulled up Zillow, 3 bed 2 bath, 1200 square foot home, 285. Hmm, alright. 4 bed 2 bath, 16 heart of square foot, 405. I mean, shit, like a 16 heart of square foot in Seattle, you're gonna pay like 750 to 900. Yup. So I don't know, I think, I can find more expensive options on here, of course. They look really fucking nice though, like what you can get for eight, yeah. I think it's on the way up. I don't think it's quite there, but I think it's on the way up. That's true. So I maybe understated it just a little bit, but it's not quite as bad. Well, regardless, to your point. I guess, as soon as Amazon announces where they're going, shit's gonna jump. So, you know. Go buy a house in that city right away. I was hoping they'd pick Omaha 'cause I have some real estate over there. Oh, there you go. Little speculative buying. Yeah, that's right. I guess if you had the means, you could pick your top five cities and just buy some properties and see what happens. Yeah, so they've narrowed this down from 238 to 20. So we'll see what happens, I guess, going forward. But be an interesting show. I don't know. Let's see. Does it say in here? I don't think it says when they expect to pick. No, I don't believe there's a timeline set on that that's been publicly announced yet. Well, we'll keep an eye on that. Very exciting. On the topic of Amazon, can I tell you about the little excitement that happened today in Seattle that I'm sure you knew about it? Amazon Go. Ah, yeah. Yeah, the stores. The stores, open to the public, cash, yearless stores. Yeah, I read about these quite a long time ago and was really interested in this. I know Aaron had pretty early access to these things before they were available to the public and I haven't really gotten any feedback from her on them, but I think she has visited them once before. I mentioned that this was opening to Christina when I saw it on the Twitter and mentioned that we should go check it out and then what, next day or something like that, I saw the tweet that you retweeted or something very similar where there was lines outside of the line list store. - The irony, people waiting around the block to go into the store that with no line for the cashier. Yeah, it is exciting. I've heard some feedback. There was an article in the Chronicle this morning and then I saw some CNBC article that I linked to in here, but Yeah, they the reason is that it had been in beta for a long time It went into beta like end of 2016 I think and it was supposed to be open to the public in 2017, but there was some technological delays as you can imagine Don't they've been somewhat tight-lipped about the technology, but they have somewhat in the magnitude of like hundreds of cameras at 1800 square foot store and they have you know 100 or more cameras, maybe more They track you skit somebody described it really well It's like going into a bus terminal or not a bus terminal, but into a subway you'd have turnstiles at the front door You got to scan your Amazon go app at the door and it'll open up for you you can walk in and you know they do have staff in the store walking around somebody at the beer section checking IDs but there's nobody there to check you out you just pick stuff up and the cameras pick it up or there are also wait sensors built into the shelves so if you try to pound you know somebody try to get sneaky and grab two yogurts and palm one of them it'll still pick up that you took to and charge you for it. Yeah, so the whole idea is scannerless shopping. You just kind of throw it in your bag and walk out, right? Grab and go, yeah, yep. It's a cool concept. I think it's neat. It's more interesting now that they have whole foods, so who knows where that'll go. I think that's a bigger problem to tackle when you got stores that have that magnitude, but it's kind of neat because that's my biggest complaint. so many times going into Home Depot or anywhere, it doesn't matter, going to the store. And I just wanna grab, especially if I'm in a hurry, I need to grab a couple things. And then of course there's two registers open and 30 people waiting to get out of there. It's like that shit's frustrating. And I think this could be an interesting solution to that. Don't know how they're gonna scale it, but right now at a little convenience store level, it's a neat idea that you can just go in and grab something and walk right out. - Yeah, exactly. And I think the store is here in Capitol Hill in Seattle. So one of these days I will try to get up there and I'll relay my experience once we've made it in and made it out successfully. - Check it out. Yeah, I'd love to hear your feedback on that. Maybe after it dies down a little bit after the... - Yeah, I have to let some of those people get out of the line first. - Cool shit though. Yeah, love to check it out. Alright, now I'll throw one last news related item here, and that is that Apple, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that they will now give you a configuration, a setting, that if you are feeling that you're being throttled because of the battery issue that's been reported all over the press, you can now, well not now, but in a future update you will be able to disable the throttling. So in other words- This is fucking ridiculous. Go on. It's a feature that you can disable the fuckery with your phone. It is, and they don't recommend that you do it, but they're giving you the ability to do it. That's so nice. That's what I said when I saw it come out. It's a feature. You had posted it. It was you, I think, on Facebook. I think you're correct, yep. Oh, fuck, dude. I saw that. I couldn't believe it. Look, I understand some of it. I understand that there's some natural bloat when you build new software releases that the newer versions are going to be more Well, they shouldn't always be this way, but but naturally they do get larger Especially incremental versions can get larger. Maybe major ones. You can actually slim it down. You see that with different versions of Windows, I don't know about some of them other mobile OSes, but yeah, the idea that they're they're going to tamper with that to keep it from crashing and then provide a release to give you the option to turn it off the tampering. Well look I think the interesting thing here will be people are going to turn it off right. So the extent of Apple's announcement of that or reasoning as to why they did this is going to become very apparent. People are going to be able to easily test that or see that that's happening. So if you turn it off and suddenly your phone's starting to reboot all the time then Bravo Apple you saved people from that happening but you didn't make it market that very well. Well no you you or I will do it because we have our noses in that thing all the time and I also update my shit every time I can I'll even go beta sometimes to get early releases but talk about other people who don't care or don't don't know or aren't as tech savvy I know a lot of people I I can guarantee I can count on one hand how many times my mom updated her OS You know what I mean like Like she still has Windows Vista on the desktop upstairs, you know like and does taxes once a year on it Yeah, I just think there's a lot of people that don't even know and Are having phone slow slow phone issues? Don't know that hey like you can get your battery fixed for 30 bucks to speed it up again Or and or you can disable that functionality and maybe it'll be okay for you Maybe you will have a better experience if it's turned off Or perhaps you'll have even a worse experience. I mean if Apple's PR is to be to be believed then they will it'll be just rebooting on its own Which is even worse So it remains to be seen it'll be interesting because clearly people will be out to test that as fast as they possibly can and not just Average people but people that do benchmarks and stuff like that and will push the hardware as hard as they can possibly push it and force it into that kind of a state so it'll be interesting to see Yeah, it will be very interesting to see I don't like it. It smells fishy. It smells a little fishy to me Kyle boy I don't know. I don't know Apple man. Everybody loves him. Yeah I'll think they're as popular as they used to be I heard a rumor male since it was kicking around talking about the They were gonna possibly discontinue the X early like not do a Not do because they do like major releases every other right. It's like the six six six Whatever right they have the S version. Yep Sounded like they were not gonna do that with iPhone X that iPhone 10. Yeah, I heard that too I read that article as well or something like it and Then I kind of read some of the big-time Apple guys like Gruber wrote a big article But and I don't remember the exact details of it But kind of push it pushed it aside like it wasn't a big deal because that they've done this before with other phones and blah blah blah blah So I don't I don't know I don't know what to make of that. I don't know either way and see I don't like they cropped that top, but whatever Get off my soapbox. I don't have time for my soapbox today. I don't have enough time for your bullshit today That's right You gotta edit all this shit if you can stitch it in also a shout out to our Deemed colleague in Denver who's been giving us a shout Don has been listening to some episodes. I heard from him too in the feedback section He was telling me that he listened to several of the episodes now and Is getting into it and it's gonna listen to some more excellent So that was pretty cool. Yeah, we have a listener in Denver now as well. We're not just in Northwest anymore folks We're starting to grow our own territory. We're a world-wide buddy. If you look at our download map We've got downloads all over the world. Oh shit. I haven't looked at the stats yet. I gotta check that out That's exciting. That is exciting. Well, I guess that's a wrap for episode number 12, buddy episode 12 in the books fucking Bada boom Bada boom so hit us up with the hashtag How I dev if you want to share what you do for your dev style how you what you drink What your desk setup is what else? What else are they sharing? I like that dammit why didn't I think a dev style that's fucking cool hashtag dev style that too or how I did But that's I like that. That's a good one. Yeah, I think I was just curious to know I'm always looking I'll even do searches sometimes for new music because I do listen to music a lot, but I don't like Vocals in my music usually so looking for different things. I'll search for programmer Playlists and shit like that So what we'd like to hear about that I would I'd like to know me too. I'd like to hear from it. If you have any questions or want us to talk about something, hit us up at #Ask3C. You can hit us up on Twitter @CoffeeCodeCast. Our email is coffeicodecast@gmail.com and the website is www.coffeicodecast.com and you can subscribe to us at SoundCloud, Stitcher, Google Play Music, iTunes and TuneIn radio. Feel free to rate us, leave us a comment, share us. Hit us up on social media. We love the feedback. We'll talk to you soon. (music) [Music] [Music] [Music] (upbeat music) [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] (dramatic music) - I did ask Alexa to play the podcast and mother fucker, she did it. - Hey, good job, Alexa. I did it too, it worked well. I think as long as you have tune in radio, I think it'll do it. - Yeah, that's what it was, it was tune in. It was your suggestion, I tried it out, I didn't wanna get up off the couch and so I wanted to listen to the, you had sent me the last one and I said, okay, well, Yeah, let's check it out. Love it, we're everywhere, man. We're in multiple countries, we're on all kinds of platforms. Wow. Even in shithole countries. Wow, oh god, man. I thought I said no more soapbox, goddammit, Kyle. Not today. Well, we got a post show, you know, we can throw it in there. Shit, oh my god, man. I don't even know where to start with that. Fucking Illumatic. What were we talking about before that? Goddammit, I lost my train of thought. I think we're well on our way having a Sirius XM channel. I was telling somebody about my big vision. You gotta put your intentions out there man. I think so. I'm not big into the secret necessarily or anything but I think it is good just to make it stated. I think it's good to have lofty goals. Yeah, I'm being pretty lofty right now. I'm dreaming big but I was telling my friend Will that was here over the weekend how I thought I thought it would be fun to have a little radio show on SiriusXM, a little coffee code cast, kind of a daily. Just going through the paper, having people actually call in on phone lines and shit. That'd be kind of fun. I just had an idea. Maybe we could put it out to the listeners and say, "Hey, give us a new name for the coffee code cast. That makes more sense." I love that idea too. That would be a really good, yes, listener engagement. right hey hashtag what's the hashtag dev style I do like that that was creative you're the creative one for damn sure I'm not gonna even try to throw in that I would come up with something like we are the bullshit news sometimes I think it's been good for us to get started, but now that it's starting to rock and roll, it's time to rethink it. Nothing's set in stone here. I agree. I think if you have a good idea for us, hit us up on Twitter @CoffeeCodeCast. We'll entertain it. I think it's a good idea for us. If you have a good idea for us hit us up on Twitter @CoffeeCodeCast. We'll entertain it. Yeah Got a lot of people giving feedback and some clever ideas. I'd like to know what Pat thinks about I'm sure Pat would have a good suggestion. It'd be funny. At least Hey, it could be comedic. I don't care. Yeah, he would be he would have something funny to say about it So I'd love to hear that. Maybe we'll have to go after your namesake. It can be the chipper cast Chipper cat. Yeah, I No, man, I struggle with naming shit and Like that's where that's an area where I get hung up on the art and not on the Distribution like I would seriously Have a grand idea like to create some content But then I would get hung up on the name for like three weeks and just be like well I can't find the perfect name. So I guess I'll just have to wait Well name is important. I mean, it definitely that's That's a pretty critical piece, but yeah, analysis paralysis is also a bad thing. So I get where you're coming from Yeah, but like this is a good example that we didn't put a whole lot of thought into it You had a clever idea a nice tie into Our past which was we would get together and do this kind of a thing Once a week or every few weeks and so why not coffee code coffee and codes what it was So I think it was good now. We're coming to realize maybe it's Maybe there's other ideas out there that would be more suitable, but we didn't waste time figuring that out We just said fuck it. We're gonna roll with it. Let's do it. That's how we roll buddy [MUSIC]